The Melanie Avalon Biohacking Podcast
The Melanie Avalon Biohacking Podcast

Episode 1 · 6 months ago

#145 - Dr. Shamini Jain: Biofield Science, Energy Healing, The Placebo Effect, Quantum Physics, Distance Healing, Reiki, Ayurveda, TCM, Bio-Magnetic Fields, And More!



2:00 - IF Biohackers: Intermittent Fasting + Real Foods + Life: Join Melanie's Facebook Group For A Weekly Episode GIVEAWAY, And To Discuss And Learn About All Things Biohacking! All Conversations Welcome!

2:15 - Follow Melanie On Instagram To See The Latest Moments, Products, And #AllTheThings! @MelanieAvalon

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6:00 - BEAUTYCOUNTER: Non-Toxic Beauty Products Tested For Heavy Metals, Which Support Skin Health And Look Amazing! Shop At For Something Magical! For Exclusive Offers And Discounts, And More On The Science Of Skincare, Get On Melanie's Private Beautycounter Email List At! Find Your Perfect Beautycounter Products With Melanie's Quiz:

8:50 - FOOD SENSE GUIDE: Get Melanie's App At To Tackle Your Food Sensitivities! Food Sense Includes A Searchable Catalogue Of 300+ Foods, Revealing Their Gluten, FODMAP, Lectin, Histamine, Amine, Glutamate, Oxalate, Salicylate, Sulfite, And Thiol Status. Food Sense Also Includes Compound Overviews, Reactions To Look For, Lists Of Foods High And Low In Them, The Ability To Create Your Own Personal Lists, And More!

12:00 - Shamini's Personal Story

13:30 - Brain Changes Over Time

14:35 - Reiki & Energy Healing

17:10 - Similarities And Differences Across Religions

19:20 - Healing Practices & Meditation

22:45 - LMNT: For Fasting Or Low-Carb Diets Electrolytes Are Key For Relieving Hunger, Cramps, Headaches, Tiredness, And Dizziness. With No Sugar, Artificial Ingredients, Coloring, And Only 2 Grams Of Carbs Per Packet Try LMNT For Complete And Total Hydration. For A Limited Time Go To To Get A Sample Pack For Only The Price Of Shipping!

25:30 - What's First; Top Down Or Bottom Up For Healing

28:00 - Dynamic Communication Between Mind And Body

29:00 - How Much Experience Do We Need To Get The Benefit In Healing Practices?

32:00 - Breath Work

34:40 - The Study Of Biofields

36:30 - Animal Studies

39:00 - How Does This Work?

41:30 - The Quantum Perspective

43:30 - Ayurveda And Traditional Chinese Medicine

46:50 - The Placebo Effect

49:05 - SUNLIGHTEN: Get Up To $200 Off AND $99 Shipping (Regularly $598) With The Code MelanieAvalon At MelanieAvalon.Com/Sunlighten. Forward Your Proof Of Purchase To, To Receive A Signed Copy Of What When Wine!

52:40 - Placebo H.E.A.L.

54:20 - Nocebo Effect

1:01:00 - Distance Healing

1:03:45 - Healing Touch

You know, a lot of what I've dedicated my career to is studying the sery that we call the biofield. And what is that? It's really a perspective that's informed by science, and what it is is the study of energy and information as it relates to our health, and there's something about linking with that largeness of who we actually are, beyond our condition minds, that can foster healing. Down to ourselves and the way that we sort of move about in the world is probably the biggest driver of our health and well being. Welcome to the Melanie Avalon biohacking podcasts, where we meet the world's top experts to explore the secrets of health, mindset, onevity and so much more. Are you ready to take charge of your existence and biohack your life? This show is for you. Please keep in mind we're not dispensing medical advice and are not responsible for any outcomes, and we experience from implementing the tactics mind hearing. Are you ready? Let's do this. Welcome back to the Melanie Avalon biohacking podcast. Oh my goodness, friends, today's episode is one of those episodes where I really, really wanted to do a deep dive into a certain topic and then the perfect person, the perfect author for that topic just came to me organically. I am thrilled about today's episode with Dr Jane on Healing Ourselves. Yes, this is a deep dive into how our mindset literally physically affects the healing of our cells, including things like the placebo effect, rare energy healing, quantum physics so much more. Not only did I vary intensely enjoy the book, but the conversation with Dr Jane was just so wonderful. Can't wait to hear what you guys think. These show notes for today's episode will be at Melanie avaloncom healing ourselves. Those show notes will have a full transcript, so definitely check that out. There will be two episode giveaways for this episode. One will be in my facebook group. I have biohackers intermitted. Fasting plus real foods plus life. Comment something you learned or something that resonated with you on the pin to post to enter to win something that I love. And then there will be a second giveaway on my instagram. Find the Friday announcement post there and again enter to win something that I love and friends, people do not take me up on this. You have a good chance of winning on both of those. So definitely definitely enter and you can win multiple times. People have, so definitely take advantage of that. If you are enjoying the show, it would mean the absolute world, world, world, if you could take a brief moment and write an itunes review. Honestly, that's the best way to support this show. It really helps boosting the show in the itunes charts, getting the word out there, spreading awareness. So thank you so so much in advance for that. Exciting updates. Friends, are you excited about my magnesium supplement? Oh my goodness, I am so, so excited. Magnesium is such a crucial mineral and most of us are deficient in it. That's because historically we would get magnesium from the soil, but our soils today are very magnesium depleted. And then, on top of that are common lifestyles deplete our magnesium levels. Yes, stress, lack of sleep, chronic illness, all of that can deplete magnesium. That's why it can be really, really important to supplement with a magnesium but of course there are so many magnesiums on the market. How do you know what to choose. Well, I decided to make the best magnesum on the market. My magnesium spectrum eight has eight forms, yes a forms, of magnesium, so you can really cover your basis. It includes activated co factors to help with absorption and no toxic fillers, and it comes in a glass bottle to help prevent leeching of plastics into ourselves and the environment. This is the magnesium that you want, I promise. And major update. Originally I was going to add magnesium three and eight to the formulation. Magnesium three in eight is the only form of magnesium that can cross the blood brain barrier, so it can really help with stress and sleep and relaxation. But I decided to make it its own product for two reasons. One, in the blend form we couldn't get enough of it into the capsule to really get the therapeutic effects. and to not everybody wants to use their magnesium for sleep and relaxation, especially if you're taking it during the day. That's why we're going to make the magnesium three and eight as a separate nightcap that you can get as an add on, so you can really tailor your magnesium to what you need. So magnesium spectrum eight, like I said, has eight forms of magnesium, and did you know that magnesium is involved in over three hundred enzymatic processes and the body? Oh my goodness, this is huge. Basically everything you do requires magnesium, so you want to make sure you're getting enough of it. It helps with nerve health, muscle recovery, muscle support, cardiovascular health, bowel movements and GI motility, energy production, stress, sleep and so much more, because, yes, it's going to still help with stress and sleep at nightcap is just if you want a specifically more sleep inducing response. My magnesium is tested to be free of toxins, including heavy metals and mold. You guys know this is so, so important to me, and it... free of all common allergens, including wheat, soy, gluten, nuts, dairy, eggs, shellfish, even rice. That is very, very common, and a lot of supplements. It's tested for purity and potency. It is the magnesium that you want and, friends, you definitely want to get it when I launched, because I anticipate we might sell out. And when you buy it at launch, we're going to have a special where you will get a discount on the magnesium three and eight, and you will only get that discount if you purchase the magnesium before it sells out. To get on my email list for updates. That is at avalon x dot US email list, and to purchase the magnesium when it's available, as well as my first supplement, Sarah Pep day's just a game changer for allergies, inflammation, clearing your sinuses, reducing brain fog, supporting healthy cholesterol levels, reducing amyloid black, breaking down fibroids and so much more. All of that is at avalon x dot us. Oh my goodness, friends, I just got back from Washington DC. I went with beauty counter and it was honestly really shocking to learn about the lack of progress and regulations concerning safe skin care and makeup. For twelve years, congresswoman Jan Chikowski has fought for a safe skin care act that would help protect us as consumers from these toxic products on the shelves. Did you know right now the FDA doesn't even have the power to recall products found to be toxic? Just consider lipstick, for example. If food was found to have toxic levels of lead, the FDA could recall that, yet conventional lipstick often test high for lead and the FDA has no power to recall it. It is so, so shocking. We Really, really need to make change in this area. In Europe they've banned over a thousand compounds due to their toxicity. These include endocrine distractors, which mess with your hormones, obesigens, which literally can cause your body to store and gain weight, and even carcinogens linked to cancer. Do you know how many the US has banned? Eleven. Oh, this is so, so shocking, so problematic. That's why it's up to us to support brands that are working to change this, and beauty counter is doing that. They are leading the way and helping create safety and skin care and makeup, because, yes, right now it is not safe. These products are damaging, hindering, affecting our health. We don't want them on our bodies. They also affect our future generations. These compounds build up in our bodies and then, ladies, when we have a baby, those toxins go directly through the placenta into the newborn. So I just want to say thank you to beauty counter for helping change this. Their products are amazing and everything is extensively test. It to be safe for your skin so that you can truly feel good about what you put on and the products really really work. They have counter time for anti aging, countermatch for normal skin, counter start for sensitive skin and counter control for acne and oily prone. I use their overnight or surfacing peel and all bright CCRUM every single night of my life. Their makeup is amazing. Check out my instagram to see what it looks like. You can shop with me at beauty countercom Melanie Avalon, and if you use that link something really special and magical might happen after you place your first order. And definitely get on my clean beauty email list. That's at Melanie avaloncom clean beauty. I give away a lot of free things on that list, so definitely check it out and you can join me at my facebook group clean beauty and safe skincare with Melanie Avalon. People share product reviews, their experiences and I do a giveaway every single week in that group as well, and yes, you can win multiple times. Again, a lot of people do not take me up on that, so definitely enter every single week. You have nothing to lose. And lastly, if you're thinking of making clean beauty and save skincare a part of your future, like I have, I definitely recommend becoming a band of beauty member. It's sort of like the Amazon prime for clean beauty. You get ten percent back and product credit, free shipping on qualifying orders and a welcome gift that is worth way more than the price at the yearlong membership. It is totally completely worth it, and I'll put all this information in the show notes. And one more thing before we jump in. Do you struggle with food sensitivities like I do, and if you'd like to help figure out just what you're reacting to, you you've got to get my APP foodsins guide. It's a comprehensive catalog of over three hundred foods for eleven potentially the problematic compounds. These include things you may be reacting to like gluten, Lectins, solicillates, soul fights, dials, histamine Bob maps whether or not something as a night shade and so much more. You can learn about the compounds, create your own list to share and print and finally take charge of your foods insitivities. It is a top itunes APP. I just checked and right now it is number seven in the itunes food and drinks chart. You can get it at Melanie avaloncom foods since guide. All right, without further ado, please enjoy this wonderful, beautiful conversation with Dr Jane. Hi, friends, welcome back to the show. I am so incredibly excited about the conversation that I'm about to have. So what led up to this conversation? I think it's probably the publicist, who represents actually a lot of other guests that I've had on this show, introduced me to this author's work and a book called healing ourselves, Biofield Science and the future of health. So I saw the title and...

I was like that looks really interesting, probably something I'd really like. So I asked for a copy to just quickly look through and, oh my goodness, it did not take long. I was like this is amazing, I can't wait to read this, I can't wait to interview the author. So I did and it turned out to be everything I could ever want. I have been dying to dive deeper into the science of things like energy healing and especially things like the placebo effect and what roll does. Is All of that play and a lot of methods to healing that we have today. So I am so, so excited about today's conversation. I'm here with the author. She is Dr Shamani Jan. She's a psychologist, scientist and social entrepreneur. She is the founder and CEO of the consciousness and healing initiative, and so that is actually a collaborative accelerator that connects scientist, health practitioners, educators and artists to help leave humanity to heal ourselves. And she does have a bea and neur science and behavior from Columbia and a PhD and Clinical Psychology, and I'm sure we will talk about this. Psycho neuro immunology at that you see, San Diego, Sandy, Ego State University, joint doctoral program and clinical psychology. So, so, so much that we oh, and, as I learned in her book, are you still in the band? I move, but I'm still pretty active singer. Yes, and that is nuns and Moses correct. That was that was one of the many bands. Yes, okay, so there's different ones. That's fantastic. When I got to that in the book I was like, Oh, it's amazing. We probably will talk about that as well. The role of creativity in our lives and how that affects everything. But in any case, that was a lengthy intro. But, Dr Jan, thank you so so much for being here. Thanks, Melanie. It's fun to be here with you. So to start things off, you talk about this a lot in the book, but can you tell listen ores a little bit about your personal story or what led you to this whole world of Biofield Science? I'm so excited to hear about the research that you've done and tell ustarns all about that. But what led you to that path? Well, you know, you mentioned the singing. Really truly first it was feeling the power of sound for myself, but also growing up, as you know, a person with east Indian heritage and background in the deep well not the deep south, but the coastal south here in South Carolina, I started realizing that, you know, there were people that were brought up very differently than me, that had different religious and spiritual orientations than me, and that was all great. Actually we got along. They would want to learn about, you know, our spiritual traditions and I would actually go to church with them and things like that. So I was pretty comfortable with the idea that they're differing points of view on how we view things like spirit and God and consciousness. But then when I went to school I realized that we couldn't talk about any of those things. And, interestingly, even though I saw the impact that people's spiritual lives had on their mental wellbeing, in their health, I realized we weren't really studying those things and in fact, if you talked about things like science and spirituality in the same sentence in academic settings, you know you were just seeing as a total flake really. So I found not interesting. And when I went to Columbia University from my Undergrad it was the early s are understanding about the brain was literally just coming online and it was when we were exploring things like what part of the brain lights up when I do this or that, and we were doing all these brain imaging studies and everyone was really excited. But they were also telling us things like your brain doesn't change after age seven, and I remember hearing that in thinking how could they possibly think that and know that? First of all, there's hardly any data suggesting that that's true. Second it doesn't make sense because if you observe nature, you realize that everything sort of has a growth pattern over time and that growth just doesn't stop at that early age and I begin to wonder what else is it that we don't know about health healing and how the body works and even how the body mind is connected? So that led me to start sort of moving away from just traditional cognitive neuroscience, which is what I did in my undergraduate work. So I did a lot of work with Eg and what's called EARP or event related potentials, looking at those for memory and things like that, and then I thought, well, what about just looking at the brain body connection and the mind body connection? How do our emotions affect our health? That was still relatively new with that time, believe it or not, but it was when I had my first Reiki session and for those who haven't heard of Reiki, it's one of these what are often called energy therapies. In Our world we call them biofield therapies and we can break down what we mean by Biofield in a few minutes. But I had this Reiki session and I actually felt the vibration in my body. It was this energetic vibration that I had never felt before like that, and I noticed how the Movement and Energy in my body and even places where energy wasn't...

...moving, where it felt stuck or painful, like the sensation of it was linked the thoughts that I had and emotions that I had, and when I sort of went within to explore what those were like, I would feel the energy move. So it was absolutely fascinating because, you know, I was a young budding scientist at that time. It had my undergraduate degree, looking at graduate schools and I thought, wow, I wonder if anyone is studying this, because it seems pretty profound and I could see where it could be really effective for patients. So that sort of started me on my journey as what I would call, you know, really a very skeptical scientist, into the socalled woo woo practices. And what we've learned over the last several decades about these socalled whoohoo practices, like energy healing, is that they're actually evidence based. They're very helpful for patients, for example, with pain issues, fatigue issues, patients with cancer. I mean, as you know, I detail a lot of the research, cutting edge, peer reviewed published research in my book that's really showing as how not only can our minds heal us and our emotions he liss but our energy plays a huge role in our healing as well. I love all of this so much. I don't think I really see you're in the south. I was worn in Georgekor for Tennessee and I've been Atlanta right now as well. Now I didn't Greenville, South Carolina, not far from you. We're Nice, we're neighbors. I was raised and a Christian environment and it was very not open in two different perspectives and different religions, and one of the most, I think, enlightening things that has happened to me since then is realizing how important it is to see all these different practices and how they relate. And actually, one thing I loved in your book was we were talking about the perception of consciousness and how that manifests and different religions and things like the Big Sea and the little sea and and this idea of and the Old Testament, like oneness and God, and I just find it so interesting that there is this similar concept because I was raised you know that this is like the one way and all these other things are wrong, but when you look at all the similarities, there's so much more similarities and differences. I think they are and I've and I agree. You know that definitely, when I would go to Chel just be honest, when I would go to church with my Baptist Christian friends, you know, I would hear the preachers sort of look at me and say, if you don't believe, you know, in Jesus and then and be a baptist, not even just a Christian, you're going to hell. And so, you know, as you can imagine, as a young kid I was like, Whoa, that's intense. Maybe I shouldn't be coming to church. Yeah, but when I talked with my friends about it and we actually talked through our beliefs, we realized how similar they were, you know. So, you know, organized religion teaches us one thing, but then when people actually have conversations and say, well, how is it that you know God, and what does God mean to you, and what is soul mean to you, then you start really realizing that indeed, you know, our experiences of what we call oneness, consciousness with a big sea, however we describe it, are way more similar than different. And then on the health side, what I think is really exciting is no matter what we call it, no matter you know, the nuances of our experience. There's something about touching into that larger aspect of what I often call going beyond the conditioned mind right, going beyond our conditioning, that is healing like down to our physical healing. We see that these experiences that we can have, which we can have through different kinds of practices, mind body healing practices, not just those that are outside of, you know, Western culture, but within Western culture as well as Eastern culture, South American culture, African culture, all of these bring us back to a broader understanding of who we truly are and there's something about linking with that largeness of who we actually are, beyond our condition minds, that can foster healing down to ourselves, and I think that's just so exciting. I love is so much and and I do want to clarify I when I laugh, I'm not laughing at anybody. I want to be super inclusive of everybody, but when I was talking about the baptist I just thought that was really funny. Actually, another thing from growing up was these concepts of healing, energy and different practices for healing, because they are in the Christian religion for sure, and throughout the Bible, but in other religions. We saw it as demonic or, you know, like not a good thing, like you was like looked out and like meditation is like, Oh, don't do meditations, all this other ring right, that was being back in the day. You know, I call that old, like twenty century thinking, because it really is. I mean, and the data really supports this. And as you know, I review a lot of the mind body in my body spirit practices in my book. So what's interesting about that from a scientific point of view is what we're learning is whether you're practicing something like Yoga, different forms...

...of meditation, which include, of course, mindfulness, which has gotten really popular, but also concentrate of meditation techniques, including things like centering, prayer month or our meditation and more. When we look at those practices and we also look at things like Tai Chi and Che Gong, we're seeing some very common effects and and that's what's really cool, and they're pretty easy ways to explain and understand, you know, on the physiological level, what's going on with those practices, and some of it has to do with breathing and working with what we call, you know, the biggest cranial nerve in our body, the Vegas. Probably all your listeners have heard about the Vegas and so called hacking your vegus nerve. Well, these practices have been hacking our vagus nerve for the you know, for Millennia. So we learned from these practices how to work with the mind and body and bring them together. And when we bring the mind and body together with the spirit, we set ourselves up for powerful healing and the outcomes, you know what we're seeing in terms of regular practice of any of these kinds of practices. So it's cool as you can pick in chure, choose right. You don't to just pick one practice from one culture. You do the one that's resonant with you, that is in your culture or that you're just feel drawn to, and practice it. And some of the things that we see in the literature are that by practicing this it's likely that you might reduce your anxiety, you might reduce pain, you might enhance your sleep, ability to sleep, you might alter your physiology in ways that include shifting your hormones or certain aspects of your immune system towards what we call a more salutogenic or health promoting pathway in your body. And so, you know, I talked about this in the book. There's ways to look at it. From the autonomic nervous system point of view, which is the balance. Of course. I'm sure all your listeners know of the sympathetic nervous system, that fight or flight, and the parasympathetic nervous system, of the rest and digest system. Were you know, these practices help bring us in harmony, help bring those aspects of our nervous system in harmony. We it's a dance right. It's not like we want to just get rid of our sympathetic nervous system. We need that right. That's part of our health. It helps us in immunity, it helps us with lots of things, readiness, movement. But when that's over active, as it often is in our culture, because we're stressed, we're focused and you know, we're mentalizing a lot. There are a lot of reasons why we can have an overactive sympathetic nervous system and sort of a dampened or not optimal parasympathetic nervous system. But when we do these practices we learn how to bring the parasympathetic aspect of our nervous system back online so that it's working in concert with the rest of our body and really helping guide our health. 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...have nothing to lose. Just go to drink elementcom forward slash Melanie avalon. That's Dr Iin k lmnt forward slash em ELA NIE a Va Lon, and I'll put all this information in the show notes. All right. Now back to the show and what's really interesting about it, because you are talking about the vegest nerve. Different healing practices or approach to health are often separated into top down or bottom up approaches, and I was just thinking about it more because, you know, one might say that top down approach would be, you know, changing our thoughts and getting to wellness through that way, that having that affect our body. But if we're activating like it seems more like it's very circular, like like if we're activating our our vegus nerve, you know, through our mentality, it's automatically top bottom up. You know, it all goes together, like what's first? Absolutely I'm so glad you brought this up because it's really important and I have a really cool graphic in my book that speaks to this very thing. Melody, you might have seen it, but you know this is we have been used to this socalled top down thinking. And actually, if you zoom out for a minute, you realize we've been kind of inundated with top down thinking in all the structures, not just science and medicine, but you know, in the structures. You know the CEO is sort of on top. It tells everyone what to do. So who's the CEO? The CEO is the brain, right. The brain tells everyone what to do. The brain is sending all these signals to the body. We've been sort of, you know, conditioned to think that way in science and medicine. But when we start looking at the data we realize, oh no, it's a bidirectional communication system. And so when we look at the Vegas, as you know, I describe the Vegas is like the hard working managing director because it's communicating with the brain and the body it you know, it innervates most of the major organs in our body and we've learned now that actually things like breathing, which we could consider a quote, bottom up process, actually activate the the Agus nerve through inflammatory cided kind signaling and other CIDEO kind signaling. And for those who haven't heard the word Cido kind, it's just an immune transmitter. Like we have brain transmitters, we have immune transmitters. Probably all of us have heard of inflammatory cyto kinds these days with the pandemic, but they're anti inflammatory cyto kinds and anyway, we don't want to go far down the rabbit hole, but CIDO kinds themselves can be inflammatory or anti inflammatory depending on their environment. So what does this mean? It means that when we're engaging in these kinds of practices, well, we're bringing the mind and body together. You're absolutely right, it's it's what we would call an interactive process where we're working both top down and bottom up, and these things are informing each other. Why? Because let's just take, for example, Tai Chi. What happens, you know, in Tai Chi or yoga, movement based practice. Certainly, we're having focused concentration, we're moving muscles, were moving our bodies, so we're, you know, sort of activating these circuits in our brain that are responsible for motor function and responsible for focused concentration. But we're also breathing in particular ways. We're having kind of guided breath in Yoga. Certainly, Prani Yama is a huge part of the yoga practice. Even beyond physical Asinas or postures. So the breathing also plays a huge role. So just on the physiological level, we're not even talking about the energy aspects of this yet. Right, just on the physiological level, we have all this dynamic communication and going on that's serving us when we bring the mind and body together, and this is what all the ancient traditions, western eastern indigenous traditions, new. There's something about bringing the mind, body and spirit together that allows us to come into the present moment and really center ourselves into a beneficial physiology for our health. Going deeper into that, because I'm just thinking about those two different camps that have been so segregated. What amount of prior knowledge is required to, I guess, activate, even though we don't want to put them into two different sides, but activate either side of this. And what I mean by that is so like breathing, for example. Yes, I guess you could teach a child to breathe and they don't really need to know why it's supposed to be helping and then it might help them. But presumably, and you can speak to this, possibly, but I don't know if approaching it with the mindset that it's going to help you, makes it more effective. On the flip side, something like taking a pill, you don't have to have any prior knowledge about that pill necessarily for it to do what it's going to do. But then there's also the you know, the place effect on top of that. So that's meandering and circling all around. But how much prior knowledge does a person need to experience the effects, the healing effects, of anything, if it's commentional...

...medicine or, you know, these other healing practices? I love your question because, you know, I think what you kind of articulated in it is that healing is multifaceted and multilayered. So the context of how we approach any healing therapy, whether it's a drug or whether it's acupuncture, energy healing, Tai Chi, whatever, the way we approach it actually can shape and inform the effects, and that is what we've been calling placebo and, as you know, I have a very lively chapter in my book with Cebo Equals Heal, where I say we actually have the way we frame placebo all wrong, because we see socalled placebo effects in every sort of therapeutic encounter in medicine, whether it's surgery, whether it's drugs, whether it's acupuncture, whether it's energy healing. Even, you know this, even in Parkinson's. We see placebo effects down to neural firing levels in the brain for Parkinson's patients. So it's very real and it's not about whether the drug or the therapy works. It's about how we're approaching our attitude, our expectations, you know, in other aspects that are going to help shape the effectiveness of whatever that therapeutic agent is. Okay, so that's first so there's context and we can dive more into that and all of the ways that we can harness what we know about the placebo effect for our own healing. You know their ways to do that. But then your other question of like, do you have to have prior knowledge? Well, I mean as far as breathing goes, for a example. No, you are automatically driving your nervous system by your breathing. Now all we're doing is bringing conscious awareness to that. So if you're breathing fast, you're influencing your physiology in one way. If you're breathing slow, deep, shallow, the way you breathe simply affect your health and and that's just, you know, basic science. So you can train yourself pretty simply to just breathe a certain amount of breaths per minute and that's been shown to impact the firing of your vegus nerve. If you breathe that, I think it's about six breaths a minute, something like that, six or ten breaths a minute, you are going to enhance the high frequency aspect of your heart rate variability. You can measure this, you can look you know there are some several sorts of biofeedback type devices. You know we've good friends with our colleagues at heart math who have their own devices and ways of looking at this and, you know, stimulant teaching people how to work with their breathing and heart right variability and heart based practices in this way. But you can literally see it in real time. Your breath will affect your vegus nerve and you don't need any prior knowledge or have to buy into any particular type of philosophy to just see that work. But when you start diving into the layers of healing that are available to us from the spiritual practices, and I will call them spiritual practices because, as you know, in my book I talked about it. Meditation and Yoga, Tai Chi, Chee Gong. These were developed not just for symptom reduction, which does happen. The evidence says. We see reductions and anxiety, we see improvements in mental health, we see reductions and pain. So yes, we do see reductions and symptoms, but that's not why these practices were developed. They were actually developed again to bring us back to that larger sea consciousness, oneness that we were talking about earlier in the hour right, because when we do that we start seeing the ripples of flourishing kind of in all aspects of our human experience, not just our physiology but our relationships, are relationships with ourselves or relationships with others, our spiritual wellbeing, our mental health. So there is something about working with these practices and learning about the depths and the breadths of what they teach that helps us to more deeply touched that state of oneness which many would argue as who we truly are. We're beyond our conditioned mind and these practices help us get there. For Studies on this, how much of this manifest in animal trials? We don't have a lot of studies that are teaching mice how to do Tai Chie. I know I'm thinking little meditating mice, but mice are probably more in a meditative state until we put them in a cage and start poking and prodding them right in all these ways. But your your question is really important and it really speaks to energy, this aspect of energy, which we haven't really touched on yet. So, as you know, Melanie, you know a lot of what I've dedicated my career to is studying this area that we call the biofield. And what is that? It's really a perspective that's informed by science and what it is is the study of energy and information as it relates to our health. You know, we can use fancier terms like the study of energy, Information and information, you know, examining fields that are that can be electromagnetic but aren't necessarily electromagnetic, that guide the homeodynamic functioning of a living...

...organism. Okay, those are all big fancy words, but essentially we're looking at energy and information across different levels of scale. So we can look at the Biofield of a cell and measure it and we can actually manipulate the biofield of the cell. There's some really cool work going on in regenerative medicine where we can manipulate voltage gradients of cell membranes and grow new tissue. That work is being done by Levin, Mike Levin and colleagues at toughs university and many other places at this point. That's one way of studying the biofield. We can look at the Biofield of our connections with humans in the earth. That's what grounding studies are doing, where we're looking at bio energetic connections between humans in the earth and whether that connection helps foster health. And we could look at things like energy healing, like reiki healing, touch, therapeutic touch, laying on of hands, pronic healing. There's so many traditions and here they're working what they might call Chi PRONUC universal energy, which has been difficult to measure directly. Right we have ways that we're looking at this. There are groups right now that are looking at all the different ways we might be able to measure the biofield of a person, looking at electrical emanations, magnetic emanations, biophoton emanations. So that work is ongoing right now where we're beginning to see can we map out, you know, some of these electromagnetic emanations off of people and are they different when we feel different emotions? Are they different in a healing response? But you asked about animal studies and the reason why sell an animal studies are compelling when we're looking at biofield science is because people can say, Oh yeah, well, if it's just people, you know, how do you want to tangle the placebo effect? How do you know that it isn't due to something else? Well, presumably most western scientists don't think that there is a placebo effect in cells and animals. What we call placebo and what we're seeing in carefully conducted controlled trials which are published in peer review, published good credible journals at this point, from groups like MD Anderson Cancer Center, is that the Human Biofield, the emission of human energy from a trained and seasoned healer can actually influence in mouse models of cancer tumor growth, tumor metastasists or basically the spread of tumor throughout the body. And they're looking at this deeply, you know, on the cellular level. So they have found at this point patterns in replication studies of Shifts and inflammatory cider kinds related to tumor growth, in tumor spread. They have found in these studies differential effects of certain cell subsets that are also associated with these cancer processes, tumor growth and tumor spread, all the way down to protein kinde signaling levels that are related to cancer. And you know, again, I detail a lot of this in my book. As you know, my book is heavily referenced. I mean I think I have over maybe seven hundred peer review published references in that book total. So everything that I'm saying is backed up by rock solid science. And what is exciting is I would say it's still a very emerging field. We're just beginning to see these studies because historically groups like the National Institutes of health and others haven't really fund at this work because it seems so out there. How could energy, you know, energy, which is so seems seemingly non physical. How could that affect ourselves? Well, it is, and you know, the data is pretty clear at this point, not just from these studies but other studies, that energy, in these ways, the bio field itself, is having an effect all the way down to ourselves in profound ways that influence how cancer moves in the body. So this is huge. We have to devote more resources to this kind of work because you can imagine what the payoffs could be right for humanity. It's amazing. Quick question about just biofields in general. I think you mentioned this in the book. I guess it doesn't really relate to healing, but is like birds migrating. Is that some sort of fields at a biofield? Yeah, so this is a great question because one of the things that we're trying to explore is how does this work? Okay, we're seeing these effects of these biofield therapies, these energy healing therapies, on patients. I am myself, as you know, have done randomized, placebo controlled trials looking at energy healing in cancer survivors and examining the effects on fatigue and physiology like cortisol variability. We see effects their other studies as well, all the way on physiological levels. We're seeing these effects and cell models, in animal models. So how is it working? Could it be that we have adapted in some way, evolutionarily speaking, to sense electric and magnetic fields and ways we just haven't been looking at. We just haven't been looking in this but when we look at animals we see that they do respond to electromagnetically, right. So we know that birds and other animals do have this geomagnetic sense where they're sensing geomagnetic fluctuations...

...of the earth and that's what drives their behavior. That's well studied. There was a recent study about a year or two ago at Caltech looking at how we can manipulate magnetic fields around the human body and it will influence our EG right. So humans are responsive to electromagnetic fields too, and you know, I throw out some speculations of how this might work. The truth is, you know, the real truth scientifically is that we don't know. We can only speculate. You know, I have a bunch of pieces of a puzzle that I've put together in my book to help help us try to understand how are we sensing these fields? How is that triggering signaling in the body that might drive a healing response? You know, how is it that healers can sense the field around a body? There's got to be cells in the skin that are actually sensitive to that, right, and we have some clues that. You know, cells like mercle cells, for example, in the skin, might be those detectors might be. We really don't know because we haven't done the research. I love the bird migration example, because it's something you can literally see, like you can see see the birds, you know, flying and there their perfect wine up. But that's why I just blown my mind. Yeah, and I mean not to go totally crazy here, but as we start looking at things like bird migration and other aspects of biology, we're starting to realize that actually applying quantum models to understanding things like, you know, what is going on in the cells and in the cell signaling with birds and magneto reception, looking at that from a quantum perspective versus a mechanical, Classic Perspective may actually be more useful in explaining their behavior. So, I mean that's a whole other rabbits, like Oh, kind of go down. But you know, if I would admit it, and I said this in my book as well, whenever people would start invoking quantum physics as a way to explain energy healing, I would start rolling my eyes because I was like, okay, yeah, of course, Oh, quantum physics explains everything right. But I was trained in clinical psychology, psycho neuroimmunology. We didn't really study quantum physics and the information that that was kind of being put forth in quantum physics didn't really trickle down to how we were examining biology. That's actually changing now we're applying quantum models to understanding macroscopic systems, including in biology, things like photosynthesis, Bird Migration, which we've talked about, other living system so quantum physics isn't just for looking at microscopic systems anymore. We're actually applying this to the macro and again, we have a long way to go, but you can see the examples of how we're applying quantum thinking to computing right now, right. So eventually these pieces are going to come together. And so from where I'm sitting again, coming again from, you know, an east Indian background, from a background that was different from the Western model, especially the western scientific model. Here I find it really neat because to me it's just sort of like we're bringing all of these pieces of wisdom together. The ancient indigenous traditions had a way of explaining energy, energy healing, connection with spirit and their powerful effects on health on the whole person, right mental, emotional, spiritual physical health. And now we're exploring in science and Western empirical science, all the ways that we could explore these theories right, and system science. We're now not just looking at one molecule, but we're looking at the whole person, you know, oh mix research, for example. Just give you one quick example of how we're bringing these streams of wisdom together. As many folks listening might know, things like I are Veda Chinese medicine. A lot of what they did is they looked at what we called phenotype, right, the expression of proteins and metabolites and things like that in the body. That's why they do poulse and tongue diagnosis. So, you know, they might not have said I'm looking at your phenotype, but that's what they're doing right, and based on phenotype they created these constitutions which they described as sort of, you know, constitutions relating to elements. So that might seem kind of far out to the Western mind, but what's interesting is there's been work, and this was actually published in a special issue in nature several years ago, there are researchers in the Netherlands that have looked at metabolomic profiles and actually map those on to constitutional subtypes in rheumatoid arthritis. Why? I mean, that's cool anyway, but why is that important? They actually found that when they brought together the metabolomics and these constitutional subtypes, it helped explain why certain medications might work for certain people with rhumatoid arthritis but not others. So there was a lot of wisdom in the indigenous approach to exploring the health of a person. And you know, while I had a professor at University of Arizona tell me that things like I are Veda were primitive medicine, they're not at all. They just weren't understood by the Western mind and now we can bring these tools together to start examining the whole person, which is really the point in so interesting to hear that, you will. Initially we're...

...skeptical of the quantum physics approach. I guess I always thought that the spiritual aspect of everything was very real and I also thought the scientific aspect of everything was very real. So my easy answer was I was like Osh, just quantum physics and I thought that was really what was going on. But I just all right with that. Other I just can't understand any of it. It will exactly I mean it's definitely probably one of the best explanatory, you know, frameworks that we have right now. But yes, I would not claim in any way to be an expert in physics. So, you know, I think part of that too is just, you know, understanding what I know and what I don't know. And what I do know is, you know, from a clinical perspective, because I am a clinician, these practices are powerful. We may not understand all of the mechanisms have they work, but they're working all the way down to ourselves and ultimately, with that tells us is how powerful we are as human healing agents right both for ourselves and others. It's really exciting. So in all the ways that we may have felt disempowered, to feel like what I do doesn't matter, what I think doesn't matter, how I feel doesn't matter, my energy doesn't matter, all of that is completely false. It's completely false and in fact, when we look at things even like Placebo, what we realize is that our consciousness and the wave that we sort of move about in the world is probably the biggest driver of our health and wellbeing. It's not the therapies. So you spoke about the animal studies, and those are often highly regarded by science for this topic, because the animals presumably don't have a placebo effect. So what are your thoughts on the idea that it's just the placebo effect? So what is the placebo effect? Is something actually happening there or what is happening? Absolutely so, you know, as you know, I went, I go through a lot of data actually on the effects of what we call placebo in different types of patients, including patients with depression, Parkinson's disease, the effects of Sham Surgery, you know, all of these things that we know from the evidence actually matter. They have clinical effects. It's not just sort of an anomaly. That's interesting. These are real positive and powerful clinical effects that we're seeing in patients where they're being told, for example, that they're getting it therapy. They're not getting it, but they think they are and they have these powerful healing responses. So that's what most people think about the placebo effect. But, as you know, it goes even deeper. There are studies that are colleagues at Harvard University have been publishing now for a while that show that you can have what's called an open label placebo effect. What does that mean you have a patient that comes into a study, say, and you say you may be randomized to a couple of groups. In one group you might get a drug for this particular ailment, let's say, you know, irritable ballel syndrome, or I might give you a placebo pill. And if I give you a placebo pill, you know this is what's going to happen. So usually in those studies, randomized control trials, you're not told which group you're in. In the Open Label Placebo Studies, you're actually told what group you're in. You you know. You get told, Oh, you're in the Open Label Placebo Group. I'm going to give you a placebo pill. The Placebo pill has no active chemical, you know, agent in it that should drive your physiology in a certain way. It's not like the drug. But Placebo has been found to have a positive effect on symptomatology, in this case for IBS, for example, what they found was that people that took the placebo pill actually showed significant, clinically and statistically significant improvement in their IBS symptoms. So here you're being told you got a place boat and you're still getting better. What's going on? So we can break down placebo into several factors that we've looked at in science. There is actually multiple things going on in what we call placebo effect. One is pretty obvious. It's expectation, right. That's usually what most of us think about when we think about placebo effects. It's how much do I think or expect that this treatment, whatever it is, is going to help? That's expectation. Hi, friends, one of the most valuable things that I do every single night of my life is my infrared sauna session. The brand that I use is Sun Latin. I did a lot of research on Infred Saan has before deciding on them. 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I'll put a link to that in the show notes, and I also recently did an epic blog post all about the science of Sauna. Will also put that in the show notes. All right. Now back to the show. Then there's what we call conditioning, which is a little bit more about subconscious learning, subconscious and conscious learning. So an example would be I'm going to get a massage and in the past I've gotten massages and I felt really relaxed. So what is likely going to happen is when I get on that massage table again, my body's going to automatically go into a receptive sort of rest and digest state because my body mind knows what to expect with, you know, with a massage. So I'm already sort of conditioned into a relaxation response because of my prior learning or conditioning. Right. So that's conditioning. Then there are things like ritual which we have in every healing encounter. Going to the doctor, checking in, having a nurse check your vitals, having the doctor come in in a white coat. That's ritual. That's the ritual of modern allopathic medicine and it has an effect on her physiology and sometimes get a negative way, right, because we heard of things called whitecoat pretension, where people sometimes see a doctor in the white coat in their blood pressure goes up. That's actually well documented. That's the effect of one ritual, for example. But rituals are in every form of therapeutic encounters and they have powerful effects on our healing. Relationship is another. Our relationship with not only ourselves but our providers can have powerful effects on our healing. So there are studies that have been done by MD's that showed just the demeanor that is, you know, the level of connection and the communication between a doctor and his or her patient will have an effect all the way down to things like recovery from the common cold. So these are just some of the aspects. And then finally, what we call meaning and context, and this is whereas clinicians or even as patients, we can use all of these elements for placebo to foster powerful healing in ourselves. And, as you know, I guide people through what I call, you know, creating your own healing ritual, where you can capitalize on all of the science and say, okay, how am I going to set my healing intentions, my rituals, my expectations to work for me? Right, there's a powerful way that we can do that, sort of utilizing the wisdom of mind, body practices and modern science to foster powerful healing effects. But so really, when we break down placebo in this way, I like to call Placebo Heal, which is holistic elements that activate life force, which I know that life force is a bit poetic, right, but they're really natural healing elements because they occur in every form of therapy, whether it's drugs, you know, surgery, psychotherapy, energy healing, all of these things are constantly happening. Their natural healing elements. So this idea that it's either placebo or it's therapy doesn't make sense. It's a both and not an either or. We want to maximize all of those conditions to make the therapy work better for people. And what it brings us back to again is understanding that it's our own consciousness that's creating the context for powerful healing. It's not just the therapy that we're given. It's so, so fascinating, and you mentioned them, but there were two very practical things that I personally experience that I read about your book and then after reading it, I was like, Oh, this is so true and and it was on both sides of things. So one was the ritual surrounding massage and how once you get on the table, like nothing has even happened yet and you automatically feel, you know, just so good. And then I had never considered, you know, going to the doctor all of the ritual surrounding that, with like the white coats and the check in and the form and take and it is all very ritualized. It's really open my eyes to just my experience of the world and these different healing things, if it's conventional or something therapeutic, have that does manifest in the context surrounding it. Another question about the placebo. So on the flip side of the placebo there's also the no see bow so, you know, anticipating that something might create an issue and then it dies. Do you know if either? I guess I don't even know if it's worth quantifying, but do you know if either one of those would be more powerful than the other? And the reason I'm thinking about it is like the role of fear versus love, like the no seeb effect. I know I fall into that a lot, like I get so worried that I'm going to do damage to myself with whatever it may be. So, yeah, the no see effect. So you can't separate the context of how consciousness APP impacts physiology. And what I mean there is what you're hinting at here, Melanie. The data suggest that no seebo effects maybe even more powerful than plus sebo...

...effects. But then we have to ask ourselves why? Because again, we are living in a culture and a time where our fear based responses, as you mentioned, are being exacerbated. Okay, I think it would be really interesting to go to other cultures that maybe were outside the mainstream and see whether no seebo effects are actually more powerful. I think it's completely contextually dependent here, because literally, our fear circuits are being activated so much that they're just more active. And, by the way, the same circuits that influence a no sebo effect are the ones that also are connected with negative affect or the experience of negative emotions over a certain amount of time. Right. So imagine that where the where the mouse? Right? Where in the hamster? where, you know, we're in the experiment and we're being conditioned to constantly have a fear response, by the media, by, you know other things, by our stressful lives, by the rat race, you know, whatever you want to call it, like literally the rat race, right, you know, our stress and fear responses are heightened and then we get sick and then we go to the doctor. So, like we're already primed right to have those circuits activated. And and that's why I think that the data in the you know, the because the data has been done sort of in mainstream settings, with, you know, sort of the mainstream culture. That's probably why we're seeing no SEBO effects seeming to be even more powerful in some cases than placebo effects. But here's what else is interesting. We see spontaneous remissions that are very real, which people might attribute to what's called Placebo but really is well beyond what we call placebo. We see that Placebo Effects Happen for Parkinson's patients down to neural firing levels. So again we are in charge and what we can do to minimize no seebo effects and maximize placebo effects is check our consciousness. Where am I at? What is feeding me and what am I feeding? I have a friend, Laurola mccradie, who is the director of research at heart math, who likes to say what am I feeding the field and what is the field feeding me? Right, so it stops with that consciousness check in where it's like, where am I? Am I in my body? Am I breathing, you know, am I am I in tune with my emotions? Am I processing whatever I need to process? Right? And then when we're in this sort of grounded and centered space, which we can do in a personalized healing ritual like I describe in the book. Right, this is really easy. It's really not hard. It's very simple to check in with your consciousness. Then, God forbid, you have some medical or you know some sort of issue that you need to go see someone in conventional care or, you know, in Agrative Care, whatever, you're going to go seek help. That's a good thing, but you want to make sure you're going in there with the right energy and with positivity on your outcome. And it's not about fooling yourself. It's about rerecognizing how powerful you are as your own most powerful biohacker. You don't need a device, you don't need to take you know years and years of certification. Course is to be your most powerful biohacker. The wisdom is all there in you. Hi, friends, so what I'm about to say may include some disturbing content, so if young ones are listening, you may want to skip ahead. On Valentine's Day two thousand and twenty two, I experienced sexual battery by a man at a massage parlor. I felt so helpless and so scared while it was happening and afterwards I was really, really scared to tell anybody. I'm so glad that my friends encouraged me to tell the police and I'm so glad that the police believed me and that the man is now in jail. And ever since sharing my story, you guys have been so supportive. So many people have applauded me for telling the police, saying that something like that had happened to them too, and they never told anybody. I started looking into the statistics and they are pretty shocking. So sexual assaults are most likely the most prevalent crime in the US and they are also the most underreported. Every sixty eight seconds, an American is sexually assaulted, so I was one of those. Every nine minutes that victim is a child. Meanwhile, only twenty five out of every one thou perpetrators will end up in prison, and only five percent of sexual assault reports filed have ever been proven false. Eighty two percent of all juvenile sexual assault victims are female, ninety percent of adult rape victims are female, and in two thousand and nineteen, over six hundred and fifty two thousand six hundred and seventy six women were raped and nearly one million women were victims of sexual assault. I believe this is a huge, huge problem happening in our society. It's one of the crimes where there's not usually evidence. It's not like a physical object was stolen or somebody outwardly injured or killed. It's basically your word against the perpetrator, and so it can be really, really scary to tell somebody and stand up for yourself, but I want to...

...encourage you that we can change this, we can speak up. So if something happens to you, I encourage you, please, please, tell somebody. I promise you you're not crazy. The thing that really convinced me to go to the police was it wasn't so much about me, but about stopping this man from doing this to somebody else. If you feel like someone crossed a boundary, they probably did. People don't usually question things that are appropriate and normal. And as parents, I encourage you to have these conversations with your children and whatever time and way you feel comfortable. I think we can make change here. It's just about spreading awareness and taking a stand and speaking out. So thank you, everybody, so much for the support. I love you all. You are amazing and let's change this. So, like I always say, you got this. Okay, back to the show. That is incredibly empowering and actually another very practical thing that has changed in my life since reading your book, speaking to the love side of things, on that dealing spectrum, the concept of distance, healing and sending, you know, positive love to other people, because historically I've always done things like, if I'm communicating on social media or something like I'll say, you know, sending love and like I'll put emojis and things like that, and and I meant it, but I don't think I ever really thought it would do anything. But reading your book I was like, Oh, you know, I can send love like I can send energy. I don't know if you have any thoughts about that. Yeah, I you. I mean you absolutely can. And again, this is where I love to go to the wisdom of, you know, the traditions who taught us how to do that powerfully. Certainly it's always wonderful to have a positive thought and send someone love, you know in a chat, you know in the mental with words. That's all beautiful. What we've learned from energy healers and contemplative practitioners who practice things like meta meditation or loving kindness meditation is that these things do have effects and I have, you know, shared some of that data in my book. As you know, loving kindness meditations and their influence on someone else's autonomic, nervous system, distant healing effects, these things are powerful. But if we really want to do that then, like anything, it's practice, practice, practice, right and the more we practice, the more we are able to bring the mind and the spirit and the energy together, then when we send someone love, it can literally help to reach out and touch that person. So I want to encourage people to to know that, yes, sharing positivity in any way is always helpful. And for those who really want to learn, how can I send love in a powerful way to help really guide and help, you know, uplevel the healing process of another? Explore practices like explore the wisdom of these practices that are time honored from Millennia, because they have a process that actually works. Just like you know, you wouldn't be, you know, shooting. I don't know, I can't even say the metaphor well, because I'm not a basketball player. But you know, you know, not everyone is born to Michael Jordan, right, but you can learn how to shoot those hoops and make, you know, make the scores with practice. And it's the same thing a lot of people ask. What can I be? A healer? Absolutely, everyone has a healer inside them. You are your own best healer, first of all, and second if you're interested in doing things like, you know, sending compassion and love in a powerful way to help elevate the people around you, learn the practices because it'll really help ground you and and they'll help expand, you know, your abilities to touch another human being in that way. That is so, so wonderful and I do want to be really respectful of your time. I was wondering if you could just tell listeners a little bit briefly about the study. Have you conducted multiple studies? I know you talked about the big one in the book with the healing touch, but I'm just wondering if you could share like what you personally found when you, you know, study this with people? Oh, you bet. I mean there's so many studies I didn't have time to talk about them all. But another one that I'll just briefly mention here because trauma has been on everyone's mind for a while now, especially during these pandemic times. We conducted the study actually with active duty military. This was, you know, during the war in Afghanistan a while back. So we were working with active duty combat military at a Camp Pendleton and they were coming in and out right they were be getting deployed, coming back and then getting redeployed. So we only had a few weeks to work with them and we gave them three weeks of guided imagery and healing touch both holistic therapies and compared that, of course, of the weightless control group during those three weeks who just got their usual treatment. And what we found was profound decreases in PTSD symptoms using a gold standard treatment called the PCL which we use for screening PTSD, you know, and hospitals and other clinics. So not only did we set see profound decreases in PTSD for these active duty military, we found profound decreases in depression, immprovements and quality of life and, interestingly, reductions and...

...cynicism. And this is really important because I can tell you as a clinical psychologist. You know what we were doing the study. I was also conducting what would be considered more mainstream cognitive behavioral type therapies with these same veterans. Right, they weren't active duty military with they were veterans. They don't like being diagnosed, being pathologized, being, you know, going through things like exposure therapy. It's very difficult. There's a huge dropout rate of conventional therapies like exposure therapy for things like trauma because it's very painful for people to go through it and they're going through this medicalized system where they're treated more like a diagnosis than a human when we look at these holistic therapies, like these energy therapies, we really understand that they're working with the whole person and they're working with them spiritually as well as energetically and emotionally. And when we talk about these therapies to them, we say we're treating your stress levels, but we're treating you as a whole person. And so, first of all, not only did you know, we see that these therapies were super effective, they had really small dropout rates compared to what you'd see in normal behavioral interventions, because people enjoyed them right, they were feeling value from them, and the cynicism dropped, I think, because they realize that they were getting better, you know, on all of these levels and it kind of increased, I think, their trust in, you know, our ability to offer care for people that are suffering. So you know the reason we do these studies. A lot of people say, well, Shamiani, we don't need these studies to tell us energy is real, like we experience that. I don't need a bunch of fancy randomized control trials to show me the energy healing is real. Well, I agree. Right, you're your best judge. Right again, you're your best detector. But if we want to integrate these practices into healthcare, into the VA hospitals, into other hospitals, clinics, emergency rooms, if we want a type of healthcare where we can walk in and talk to a provider and they will ask us not only about our symptoms but what's going on in our lives, what our relationships like, what are we eating? You know, how's our spiritual or existential life? We know from the data that all these things matter for our health. And when we do these types of trials and we demonstrate the power of spiritual and energy healing at therapies all the way down to physiology, we allow for these therapies to be more integrated into healthcare because we want to democratize healing. This is not about going to a spot to get reiki treatment. Everyone should be able to access these therapies. So that's why we do the research. I cannot thank you enough for all that you're doing with it. I just wish this book was required Reading For all medical students. It's really, really that wonderful. And listeners, we only barely skim the very top of the surface of everything that's in this book. There's history, there's science, there's the studies. It's really, really eye opening and practical. There's practice too, for those who, you know, are interested in that. The third part of the book is called the healing keys and I've basically synthesized everything into some really key steps that everyone can take for their own healing because, you know, I and all of my friends at my nonprofit, the consciousness and healing initiative, which we didn't have enough time to talk about today, you know we're yeah, we're serious about democratizing healing. So dive into the healing keys to if you go into the book, and I do want to mention that I teach a lot. I have an upcoming I'm actually headed to the Bahamas in a couple of days to teach there, but I'm also teaching at Esselyn Institute in big Sir in March. I'll be teaching the healing keys there and have a number of other workshops planned with some wonderful colleagues in the field, Bruce Lipton, Greg Braden and, need two more, Johnny others, where I'm going to be teaching at various beautiful places this year so we can really take all of this and put it into practical wisdom for ourselves in community. Wonderful. Yes, definitely important to emphasize the practical piece to it for listeners and readers well. Thank you so so much. This is so perfect because the last question that I asked on the show every single time, and it's just because I appreciate more and more each day how important mindset is. So what is something that you're grateful for? HMM, my family. I've been feeling really grateful for my family these days and it's kind of top of mind for me. You know, my parents are still living. I'm grateful to have the opportunity to spend time with them when they're living in healthy you know, all the way to my kids, and having those generations connect, even if they don't always see eye to eye, is a really beautiful thing for me. So thank you for asking. Well, thank you so much, Dr Jan. This has been absolutely amazing. Again, listeners, get healing ourselves, you will love it, I promise you. What links would you like to put out there? How can people best follow your work? You bet well. Actually, if you go to healing ourselves bookcom. That will take you to the page where you can order my book through various platforms. You know, Amazon...

...and all that, for sure, but also independent book stores like good reads and others. You'll also get a lot of really cool bonuses if you go to healing ourselves bookcom. So that's a great place to kind of learn more about the book, read the endorsements of our friends and things like that. That will also take you more or less to my website where you can tool around and find all kinds of goodies. And please do visit our nonprofit, the consciousness and healing initiative. We have free webinars every month with leaders and healing. You know, this just a treasure trove of information to dive into. The easiest way to access the webinars on healing is simply to go to webinars on healingcom. That'll take you to our nonprofits websites, webinars page and our website, which is www dot hi or Chi dot is for consciousness and healing initiative, cheat dot is. You'll have so much fun. There's so much there to explore in a lot of free resources for you on the science of healing, awesome. While we will put links to all of that in the show notes and again the show notes, will be at Melanie avaloncom healing ourselves and will thank you so much, Dr Jan this has been absolutely amazing. I've been looking forward to this conversation since the moment I, like I said, just briefly look through your book at the beginning. I was so excited. So I'm this has been absolutely amazing. I look forward to your future work. Open door here if you ever have another book or want to come on for any other work, and hopefully, if you're ever in Atlanta, let me know. I would love to to meet you. Yeah, that would be fun. I'm sure I'll find my way there at some point and thank you, Melanie, and thanks everyone for listening. Awesome. Well, enjoy the rest of your day and I will talk to you later. By thank you so much for listening to the Melanie Avalon biohacking podcast. For more information, you can check out my book what when wine? Lose weight and feel great with Paleo style meals, intermittent fasting and wine, as well as my blog, Melanie avalon oncom. Feel free to contact me at podcast at Melanie Avaloncom and always remember you got this.

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