The Melanie Avalon Biohacking Podcast
The Melanie Avalon Biohacking Podcast

Episode 1 · 3 months ago

#166 - Megan Ramos: Intermittent Fasting For Females, Weight Stigmas, Women's Fertility, Insulin Resistance, Metabolic Syndrome, Body Weight Set Points, Finding A Fasting Community, And More!



1:45 - IF Biohackers: Intermittent Fasting + Real Foods + Life: Join Melanie's Facebook Group At For A Weekly Episode GIVEAWAY, And To Discuss And Learn About All Things Biohacking! All Conversations Welcome!

1:55 - Follow Melanie On Instagram To See The Latest Moments, Products, And #AllTheThings! @MelanieAvalon

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10:30 - Megan's Personal Journey

17:30 - Getting Introduced To Fasting

21:10 - The Book Release And The Effect Of The Pandemic

25:15 - Bad Advice And Weight Stigma

28:00 - Metabolic Syndrome And Being Underweight Or Overweight

31:00 - Visceral Vs. Subcutaneous Fat

34:00 - Thin On The Outside, Fat On The Inside

36:25 - Metabolic Syndrome In Asian People

37:00 - Body Weight Set Points

40:15 - Hormonal Imbalances

41:40 - The Fasting Clinical Experience

45:00 - The Group Support

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53:15 - The Small Plate Tip

55:00 - Fasting With Your Partner

1:04:20 - Fertility And Fasting For Women

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1:18:50 - Megan's Berberine Experience

1:27:50 - Raising Healthy Kids

1:36:50 - Megan's Future Projects

Because they don't have a lot of the subcutaneous fats, so they will recall then on the outside fat on the inside. So you know, we see these individuals and they look slender, and they may be healthy or they may be unhealthy. We've really got to know their body composition. But it really does seem with our therapeutic protocols that we do that the fast thing makes a dramatic dent and that visceral fat right off the bat. So we fix the insulin resistance and we fix the pcos first, then we focus more on meal timing and nutrient density. Just gotta show off and keep practicing every day. Welcome to the Melanie Avalon bio Hacking Podcasts, where we meet the world's top experence to explore the secrets of health, mindset, longevity, and so much more. Are you ready to take charge of your existence and bio hack your life? This show it is really Please keep in mind we're not dispensing medical advice and are not responsible for any outcomes and we experience from implementing the tactics line near me. Are you ready let's do this? Welcome back to the Melanie Avalon bio Hacking podcast Okay, friends, I know this is a long awaited episode. Megan Ramos is a legend in the intermittent fasting world. I have had so many requests to have her on the show. She's also good friends with my co host Cynthia, so I knew she was just a wonderful person overall, and I thoroughly enjoyed our conversation. If you are at all interested in intermittent fasting, this is the conversation for you, especially if you're a woman. We get into so many incredible topics you can't wait to hear what you guys think. The show notes for today's episode will be at Melanie Avalon dot com slash Megan Ramos. That's m E g A n R A m O S. THEO show notes will have a full transcript, so definitely check that out. There will be two episode giveaways for this episode. One will be in my Facebook group I have bio Hackers Intermittent Fasting plus Real Foods plus Life. Comment something you learned or something that resonated with you on the pent post to enter to win something that I love, and then check out my Instagram. Also find the Friday announcement posts there and again comment to in try to win something that I love. You have a very good chance of winning. People do not take me up on this, and I often give away a full size beauty counterproduct. More about that in a bit, so definitely check that out. If you're enjoying the show. It would mean the absolute world, world world if you could take a brief moment and write an iTunes review. It helps so much more than most people realize. Reviews are everything when it comes to building credibility and spreading awareness and just getting the content out there. So thank you so much in advance for that. Another announcement for you guys. Friends. 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I give away a lot of free things on that list, so definitely check it out and you can get text updates so you don't miss anything. For that just text beauty counter to eight seven seven eight six one eight three one eight. That's beauty counter to eight seven seven eight six one eight three one eight. You can join me on my Facebook group Clean Beauty and Safe Skincare with Melanie Avalon. People share product reviews and their experiences, and I do a giveaway every single week in that group as well. And lastly, if you're thinking of making clean beauty and safe skincare a part of your future like I have, it, definitely recommend becoming a Band of Beauty member. It's sort of like the Amazon Prime for beauty. You get ten percent back in product credit, free shipping on qualifying orders, and a welcome gift that is worth way more than the price of the year long membership. It is totally completely worth it. And I'll put all this information in the show notes, all right, without further ado, Please enjoy this wonderful conversation with Megan ramos Hi. Friends, Welcome back to the show. I am so incredibly excited about the conversation that I am about to have. I'm always really excited on this show when I get to interview somebody that I've been following for so so long, and especially when they had a pivotal role in my own personal journey. So, as you guys know, I am a huge fan of Intermittent fasting. I also co host the Internet Fasting podcasts with Cynthia thur Lowe and way back in the day, because I've been doing that for so long, But there were really a few key figures that I followed to learn more about the internet fasting lifestyle. And one of the first people that I follow it was Dr Jason Fung, who I've also had on this show, actually not for an episode on fasting. It was for his book about cancer, which was fascinating, so I'll put a link to that in the show notes. But he did a lot of work with the fabulous Megan Ramos I used to listen to. They had a podcast together back in the day that I used to listen to you, And I've been following Megan's work for just so so long, and she is actually the co author with Jason on a book that came out in April called Life in the Fasting Lane, How to make Intermittent fasting a lifestyle and reap the benefits of weight loss and better health. That book was equally fabulous and amazing, and I really really wanted to interview Megan and was hoping it would manifest someday. And then our mutual friends Cynthia through Lowe, offered to connect me to Megan. Actually, Megan, Cynthia told me that her interview with you, I think has been one of her most popular episodes of like all time, which is incredible. So I was so excited to be connected and to have her here now for...

...this conversation. So this is going to be great. Megan, thank you so much for being here. Thanks so much for having me on, Melanie. I appreciate that intro. So I love your book Life in the Fasting Lane, which I should mention is a New York Times bestseller. You share a lot about your personal story in that book. A lot of listeners are probably pretty familiar with you, but for those who are not, could you tell them a little bit about your personal journey. You have a really interesting experience with your own weight history, which might be a little bit different than some people's normal weight history journeys, and how you came to meet Jason. I'm super curious and doing what you're doing now. Just what led you to this? Yeah, and so funny because I grew up an insanely private person and from an insanely private family, and now I share all this information about myself and and my family to the to the man says, but I learned that I needed to because I was really young when I went through a lot of my health jud girls, whereas a lot of the community that I served in the medical field were much older, and they didn't understand how how I could relate to them. And I said, you know, I might not have the years under my belt, but I have had just as many trials interpulations, you know as people forty years older than me. And I've i've I'm sitting here in front of me today, happy and healthy and you know, fit looking because I'm the light at the end of the tunnel. So even though I'm much younger than you, like, there's hope because I started off exactly where you are, regardless of how much older you are than me. So my interests in prevented in medicine started really young. My mom's got all these weird conditions like neurow five on my toastes type two, she had cushions, now she has Addison's. I grew up in hospitals because of my mom, and you know, and just really I was able to recognize from like middle school that they were just treating all of her symptoms, like no one was actually trying to help her help her out with her disease or the root cause of her conditions. And when I was fifteen, I decided, I want to go into medicine in some field, but I really want to be all about preventative medicine. Ironically, my dad had a very good friends who was director of this large nephrology, so large kidney disease program. They're actually the largest clinical medical research department of any kind in North America, and it was just half an hour away from our home. And very ironically, his friend had two kids who both wanted to go to law school and be lawyers, and had also decided that at the same time I decided I wanted to go into preventive medicine. So my my dad arranged with his friends to do a kid swap. The friends kids went to work at my dad's law firm, and I went to work at this kidney program in the Scarborough area of Toronto. And I was fifteen, and I was to work with a young new nephrologists who had just joined the group. He was fresh out of his fellowship. And when nephrologists joined that group, they had to do several research projects to sort of in doctorate them into the community. And so I was a student assigned to this very young doctor named Jason Fung. So I was fifteen. I just turned thirty eight a couple of weeks ago, so we had a very long history working together. Yeah. So I love I love the focus on preventative medicine there, and I just stuck it out there throughout all my education and everything, and then I went to lead several studies there, you know, after I was done with school. But you know, we were doing all of the traditional things, right, you know, follow the Canadian food guideline, calories and calories out, eat a dozen times a day, now, don't go to seconds without eating, kind of advice. Like we were giving all of this lifestyle advice. And you know, it kind of broke my heart because we had one study where we had twenty eight hundred patients sign up who had very very mild kidney disease, and over thirty eight percent died before the study was over within three years from severe severe kidney disease. And I thought, my goodness, like that everything we do, it seems like we're slowing up the progression of their disease, not slowing it down like we should almost be doing the opposite of everything that we do, and I became just really frazzled. You know, I'm like, oh, maybe I should have gone into a law because I wouldn't have these emotional attachments. You know that you get to these patients, I mean dialysis patients you see three times a week. They're there for four to six hours at a time. They become your family. Study patients are coming in all of the time for blood work, they become you know, family. And it was just heartbreaking because these people were literally passing away every day. It was bad news. So I wasn't quite sure what I was going to do with my life. But one thing I knew is I needed to take my own health more seriously. You know. I was twelve when I was diagnosed with fatty liver, and fourteen and I was diagnosed with polycystic O variants syndrome.

But for some reason my b M I was always classified as under weight and the doctors all told my parents not to stress, I would grow out of it. It didn't make sense that I had diseases of obesity when I wasn't obese, So it's just kind of some fluke. I remember a doctor at the hospital for sick kids in Toronto. It's a famous hospital, saying that's to my mom, it's just a fluke. She'll grow out of it. Don't change anything. She'll be fine. And so you know, in retrospect, now I know I was. I had a very awful body composition. I was not strong. I used to break my bones all the time. I would to be more tired and fatigued and things like gym class and sports than any of my friends. I wasn't very strong and any P class list not not my best subject. Whereas I could rock the calculus or the biology classroom. It was you know, I was challenging from that aspect. But so I was this little I was what we called tofy than on the outside, but fat on the inside. So I went undiagnosed with real metabolics room for a very long time. So here I am in my mid twenties. My heart's broken over all these patients dying. Jason's you know, approaching forty. His heart's broken over you know, he's like all these people, they just have diabetes, right, And as a kidney doctor, the diabetes is killing the kidneys and there's not a damn thing I can do to help the kidneys, So I just monitor them to give them the bad news, you know that they need to go on the transplant lists or get dialysis or both. So we're both heartbroken, and I thought, Okay, Megan, you have this terrible family history, like you know, maybe if you start implementing these interventions that you're giving these patients of yours, if you start into implementing them now younger, at you know, twenty six years old, you'll have a better outcome than these patients. Well I didn't. Just like our patients. I had a rapid decline and in a year I had gained over sixty pounds, and I just for my twenty seventh birthday was diagnosed with diabetes. Mind you those kind of borderline at six point four percent. But I got this aims feel from my my primary care. You know, you've got you know, three months to lose some weight and bring this down or I'm gonna put you on that foreman and we're going to have to talk about insulin and blah blah blah blah blah, like all of like the conversation that I had dread from watching people die from diabetes all around me as a career. So Jason and I were kind of going through our own little up peoples. And while I was working on implementing all these DIA dietary interventions that were leading to my demise, Jason was doing research and a friend had talked to him about fasting. She had started fastening after divorce for spiritual reasons. But notice all of this, all of these health benefits. And Jason and I worked in the most diversity in the world, in the most diverse niece of niche of that city. So we had patients that, like of our patients participated in Ramadan every year, and it was always such a huge pain because we'd have to see them before Ramadan to adjust their medications because their blood pressure would go down, their blood suggars would go down, and then we'd have to see them again three weeks after Ramadan because their blood sugars and their blood pressures would be back up. So, you know, this is a huge lightbulb conversation for Jason, and he went down, you know, the rabbit hole of you know, fasting and religious practices, because there's got to be more to it than spiritual beliefs. So if it's included in every literally every religious practice. So Jason said to me, it's like you've got a fast, You've got a fast. And I was a little overwhelmed. And then the next day one of my colleagues came into our our research facility, and she said, you know Dr Funds going around saying that you can cure type two diabetes through starvation, and all of the research coordinators started to laugh. But you know, Jason would say things out of the box here and there, but Jason was always right, and they were always very simple ideas, and he was always right. At this point, I had worked with him for over a decade and you knew to not take his words lightly. So that same evening I overheard him giving to talk to some of his patients about fasting, and I decided to sit in and watch, and everything just made sense. Like I went through a whole range of emotions, anger at Professor's, anger at the government, anger at my very intelligent parents who should have figured this all out, anger about all of the disease that have been building up in my body. And then I felt true empowerment because I now know that I can fast and I can reverse my disease. So the clinic had been giving Jason a really hard time not letting him want to fast anybody because it was just crazy. He wanted to go after the insulin dependent diabetics, and that's just crazy in mainstream medicine. But I wasn't a patient, and everybody had watched me get so sick, and then everybody got a chance to watch me get so much better. They couldn't stop me from fastening. They couldn't stop Jason from monitoring me. And then eventually all of our colleagues said, please post your blood work, please, you know, share your updates. We want to know how much weight you've lost. Oh my god, you've come...

...back to life. And then finally the director of our program he called me in one day and he said, Megan, this patient's got like three months to lose thirty pounds or she's going to miss this opportunity she has for a transplant. He's like, I'm waving the white flag. You and Jason take her and do what you need to do so she can get this thirty pounds and her diabetes taken care of so she can get this transplant. And that was it. I went on a vacation for a couple of weeks and I came back and we started our Fascinating Clinic in office in Toronto, and then prior to COVID, just you know, because of the boom and people out there really wanting to reverse their diabetes and the popularity of our books, we moved everything online. But that's you know, so Jason and I co founded our our program, the Fascinating Method. So we do coaching, small group, one on one. We have a community. We do boot camps that we call masks their classes. Um, We're launching telemedicine later this year. So everything that used to be able to get in our clinic in Toronto you can now get online. And it's just been really crazy, you know, to see the boom and fasting since we started back in Wow, that was a riveting story. That is incredible. I'm super curious. You released The Life in the Fasting Lane April, right at the beginning of the pandemic. How do you think that affected people being open to fasting? And I'm super curious if it affected book sales Like the timing of that, I'll tell you our publisher, who is her pre Wave and Harvardcollins, they were not thrilled about the timing. Timing of the book release. I mean that book was literally constructed in a few months. We we cleared a bunch of things to get that book out there, and it was really to help people lose weight before the summer. And then it took on a whole new meaning with COVID coming into play earlier that year. I think initially the book came out, I think the whole world shut down at some point in March for a few weeks. And initially I think a lot of people that supported Jason and I went out and purchased the book, and that's why it made the New York Times bestseller lists. But then there was a dry spell and then what we saw was in the fall books sales really start to increase. And this sort of coincided with what we were hearing from people. So we saw, you know, March April, most people in North America were lockdown in some capacity. If you're in my native home of Toronto, when you were locked down for two years, I left at some point to San Francisco, but it was a crazy time. And if you're in Canada, you heard the Canadian Dietitians Association telling you to eat no matter what. When you were at home and that it was perfectly okay to comfort eat on cake and potato chips and all of this stuff because it was better to eat than to not eat. That's literally with the Canadian Dietitians Association, that was advice they're giving. So we saw, I think all of these people like they didn't know their businesses, their careers, their jobs. There's all of this stuff coming right, Like the the media was just nuts too. That wasn't helping. And then you you're hearing from these organizations like eat eat coffee cake all hours of the day and you know, because it's better than you know, not eating if you're feeling pressured or overwhelmth So we saw a lot of people just not prioritize their health and then like COVID lockdowns and whatnot, and then they weren't going away or they weren't being radically reversed after a few weeks. So we saw was a lot of people in the fall start to say, well, what the hell, like this is not ending any time soon, and we've got to stop and we've got to undo this thirty pounds that we have gained since March. So we saw a lot of interest then in fasting in September, and I mean that was reflected in our book sales as well. But I actually think it was the perfect book at the perfect time. Many people, like who are listeners of this podcast, who are familiar with like all of Jason's writings, I say, this is probably not his most technical book. And we definitely saw this and like Amazon reviews, it certainly wasn't as deep in the science as the b CIT code, diabetes code, cancer code, PCUS plan. But this, this book, whatever was intended to be, it was actually intended for a very new audience too, you know, because we would have all these people come to us and say, you know, how do I get gently get my sister, my cousin, my aunt, my brother, you know, to start doing this. And our friend Eve had this really interesting emotional journey with weight loss, and she tried all these crazy things and then it resulted in a whole bunch of failures and hundreds of thousands of dollars spent until she reluctantly tried fasting and it was kind of a miracle for her. And she means she went through divorces over her weight, She went through all kinds of trauma. She was on like Forbes Top ten lists of females and marketing, and she'd be ridiculed on stage with like the likes of Gary V because of her her weight and her appearance. So there is this really emotion aspect that Jason and I wanted to share because, you...

...know, the it's there's so many people out there just pointing fingers and you know, just sort of ridiculing people, you know, for like the their waight. You know, it's the behavioral issue. Is the behavioral issues. Sure, there's behavioral components to it, but we're giving everybody such bad advice and then we're punishing them and making them belittling them, you know, for the bad advice that they're being given. So it's, uh, you know, we really felt for people with emotional aspect of it. And it's like a younger woman, I feel all kinds of pressure to be a size too and to you know, look a certain way all at the time, and I couldn't imagine going through a life of what Eve did, but I would see it time and time again with the patients, and I had my own little taste of that too, So we wanted to share eve story. You know, to let people know that they're not the only ones that you know, spouses are turning off the light at night because they don't want to see them naked because they're overweight. Like all these things that she shares in the book, people don't talk about that. They just suffer in silence with the trauma of that. And then we wanted to explain why all of these different dietary interventions she used along the way didn't work, and why fasting did work, and then how you could fast and how you could fit it, because you can really fit it into any lifestyle. There's an infinite number of ways you can fast and still get results. So I thought that that the book ended up having kind of an ironic timing because there was a lot of people losing their health insurance. There are a lot of people that were just desperate to lose weight that they had gained at the startup COVID, and they didn't know where to start. There's a lot of emotions going on just because of the state of the world at the time too, and everything became heightened. So I was, Hey, here's this woman that I can really relate to, and now I understand why all these things didn't work, and now hey, I have this tool that can help me lose the thirty pounds and that I gained during this lockdown, and the thirty pounds I had gained before that, the thirty pounds that I never lost. You're giving birth. And I thought it was interesting, interesting timing for sure. So it's not deep deep in the science, but it's it really kind of explains, you know, the emotional side, why things and the traditional means of weight loss don't work, and why fasting does and what you can do about it. I thought it was great because, I mean, it's what people need as far as being super approachable and touching all of these topics that I think are so important. And that was actually one of the most eye opening parts of the book was something you just touched on now with the role of weight stigma and gender and society and like you talked about how women tend to make more if they weigh less and men have higher salaries if they make more, which is just pretty shocking and a big issue. Okay, I still have I have so many questions going back to your own journey and your experience. I was mentioning how you had a sort of different weight experience, and what I would was hinting it was what you talked about with being you know, underweight and having metabolic syndrome, which eventually you did gain weight. I'm super curious, first of all, this concept of metabolic syndrome in people who don't look like it, who are not overweight, so like, why does that happen with the fat cells and everything? And the second part of the question is you did end up gaining weight, And I'm super curious. Was that a tipping point situation? Does the body hit a point where it finally decides to start making new fat cells to deal with the metabolic syndrome like or had you significantly changed your diet when that happened. Yeah. I grew up with a really sick mom and a very privileged home. So even if there was a home cooked meal, if I didn't like it, I could order pizza, and then when mom was sick, it was eat whatever junk you want. I was Actually I was thirty years old the first time I proccoli, So just to help listeners put put that into perspective. So, like like you said, and I mentioned I was very thin. I was classified as underweight by B m I, which just takes the number on the scale that's your weight, and it puts in the ratio of your height and punches out this calculation that determines whether you're obese or not. And Fine was underweight. But there's this whole concept of weight and then body composition. So when you stand on the scale, it tells you you're total weight, so that includes things like fat mass, water mass, bone mass, muscle mass, but it doesn't tell you how much of each of those things that you weigh. So it's you know, it's kind of funny. I've been in my adulthood. I have been ninety seven pounds, and I have been morbidly obese because I had brittle bones and I had not very much muscle. So when I stood on that scale and it shone back to me ninety seven pounds, I stand out five ft three. So at ninety seven pounds, I was mostly fat. I...

...was tired, I was unhealthy, and you have fatting, liver and pcos issues then and today I stand out of a hundred and twenty pounds, but I'm actually, you know, not obese at all. I'm much less obese than I was at ninety seven pounds because I have stronger bones, I have a lot more muscle mass, and I have a lot less fat, and muscle is a lot more dense than body fat, and bones obviously a lot more dense than body fat. So it's really about body composition. So that scale can be very, very tricky. So you know, we see these individuals and they look slender, and they may be healthy or they may be unhealthy. We've really got to know their body composition. But a lot of the times, if they're unhealthy, you know this is going to start to show up in their lap work pretty quickly, and so important to understand me. And we have different types of fat in the body, and genetics can sometimes play a role as to where that fat is stored. But you know, for simplicity purposes, let's say we have visceral fat and we have subcutaneous fat. So subcutaneous fat lies underneath the skin but above the abdominal cavity, so inside you have all of your organs and glands and testines and everything, and then you've got this shield if you want to think of it as like a shield from a superhero type of movie, and that's called your abdominal cavity, and then there's this space between your abdominal cavity and sort of your your skin that you know, covers your your belly, and subcutaneous fat primarily lives outside of that shield between the skin and the shield. So it's separated from your organs by this shield, by the abdominal cavity, so it's you know, it's not able to infiltrate them and cause issues with them. It just kind of sits there. And this is you know, the fat that we don't necessarily like when we're at the beach and we're trying to wear a bikini, you're trying to fit into a tiny dress or a nice you know, were Um, we don't like this fat because it's what society has you know, typically labeled as you know, on un sexy. And we associate this type of fat to be the fat that comes with disease. And well, yes, you can accumulated, accumulate it and put enough strain on the body you can lead to disease and and too problems. But what's actually more dangerous is the visceral fat, not the suputaneous fat. So the visceral fat, that's the fat that's you know, is underneath that abdominal cavity, meaning that it can infiltrate inside your organs and wrap around your glands and your organs, and it's like putting headphones on your your organs because it prevents them from being able to hear signals that are being sent from other organs and other glands to use certain functions in the body, or it will just so infiltrate them with fat that they're unable to function properly. So something that we all very commonly hear about these days is non alcoholic fatty liver disease. And when you have an ultrasound done or CT scanned on that diagnosis this, you'll see phrases like mild, moderate, and severe fatty liver infiltration. So that's just how much of the liver the gland has been infiltrated, you know, by fat. And we'll see things like this happened with pancreatic function, so we'll actually see tons of fatty pancreas is now on CT scans and ultrasounds. And that was just really wild because I've been looking at these results since I was fifteen never and then when I was like, I started to see these coming up on ultrasound and CT scan results, and then I saw a fatty spleen ones, and like, what the heck is a fatty spleen And I'm calling radiology, like there's like a type of here. I'm like, this is a big typo and it's not. So you you get this infiltration and then that really distracts organ and gland functioning and communication. That leads to a lot of disease and causes a ton of inflammation in the body as a result. So this is really scary. And these people are usually walking around thinking that they could afford to eat an extra cheeseburger because they don't have a lot of the subcutaneous fat, so that what we call thin on the outside fat on the inside. We hear from these people all of the time. You know, we're type too diabetic, we're not type one, but we don't understand. Jason and I, we had this one patient came in. She was very petite, she was like four ft ten and she was like eighty eighty nine pounds, but she was all fat and she was, you know, by body composition standard, she was morbidly obese. So that I mean, the idea was not to make her fifty pounds, and when I was ninety seven pounds, was not to make me fifty pounds. But it's to make sure that you've got a healthy body composition by shifting the ratios around less fat and more lean mass, more bone and muscle mass, and us why you know,... a twenty pounds, I m S I S two and I'm less obese than it was at ninety seven pounds, and I wore bigger size at ninety seven pounds because I had more fat mass. So it's body composition, and body fat is kind of a finicky thing. So sometimes genetics plays a plays a role in where you gain this fat. Sometimes there's you'll see your families where everybody is very slender, but they will have type two diabetes and metabolic syndrome. Where you'll see families that are all, you know, very perhaps overweight because I have a lot of subcutaneous fat, but they don't have heart disease, they don't have type two diabetes. And then you're really kind of unfortunate if you get a mixture of both the visceral and and the subcutaneous fat, because you know, the people was the that visible fat, they really feel awful about themselves because society has just set us up, you know, to feel that we must get a perfect box all of the time. So there's these different types of fat and they can sort of manifest in in different ways. But it's actually those tofis that are they're at the highest risk for serious cardiovascular complications, serious diabetic complications, so they're the ones that really need to focus on adjusting their body composition the most. This is just so so fascinating, and is this often the case in Asian populations the reason that Asians are often thought to be thinner but struggle with metabolic syndrome. It partially is, and then it's also some of the different food types that they go through in the processing that has happened to those food types over the years. So like now, if you go to a lot of Asian countries today, everything has been so westernized and so process differently that there is sort of just tons of like visual obesity as well, and not necessarily Tofy's, but it's a lot of visceral fat that we see in more of these slender populations with type two diabetes. Okay, I don't know if you've thought about this before, If you have any thoughts on this. I'm wondering when you work with patients in the clinic, do you experience this whole concept of body weight set points? And do you see people losing weight? Does it seem like their brain fights to maintain a certain body weight? And then the more granular question, The reason I thought of it is so like that visceral fat versus that subcutaneous fat, do you think the body preferentially tries to maintain either of those? Like, if you lose visceral fat, does the hypothalamust think, oh, we've got to replace that visceral fat compared to subcutaneous fat. Does it have that response. I don't know if you've ever thought about that. I've never really thought about it until now. We've actually found that the body really targets that first, like anyone who comes in a fatty liver disease. So you could be say, three pounds over your desired weight. So we're talking a need to serious weight loss and have fatty liver disease, and I can reverse depending on how committed you are. So you're moderately committed, you're gonna do eight of you know what I say, You're not going to do a hundred sent all the time, but so many of the time you're going to listen to what I say in terms of nutrition and fasting. Well, in three to four months, you can totally eliminate fatty liver disease. Like I was. I know, and I was twelve that and I dicinctly remember them telling my parents. I grew out of it because I was. I was old enough to know that this was serious and that my liver was important. So I paid attention. And it never got better. My A l TEA, my enzymes, they were always always They weren't wild, they weren't terrible, but they were not good. And all my ultra sounds and CT scans on follow up never got worse, they never got better. But as I got older, I just naturally started fasting all of the time. But I just ate like garbage when I did eat, So I mean there'd be days with exams where I would do one meal a day, but it would be an entire dom whin I was pizza. So so it wasn't you know, I was counteracting some of it was fasting, but I was not making my giving myself enough space to get better during those times. But if people really sort of commit, you know, like I as twelve and in six months, less than six months, I had totally reverse that fatty liver disease that I could never reverse. So you know, someone who's three hundred pounds overweight with metabolic disease, you can reverse your fatty liver in three to four months. You don't even need to do crazy fast thing to do that. You can just follow the twenty four hour or three times a week protocol, makes some changes to your diet and vola like your fatty livers, even moderate to severe fatty liver can be reverse in that time. So we found the body, you know, when in a fastest state, generally prefers to start, you know, eliminating that. So, I mean, our body is not always our friend. If it was there there weren't the autoimmune conditions, but in general, our body, you know, sometimes it does these things to help us out. And when we're fasting, really targeting that visceral fat. So like we'll see fatty pancreas improve very quickly to when someone starts so fast. I've only seen a couple of fatty spleens, but we've seen a ton of things like fatty pancreas, and that stuff all clears up quite quickly when someone...

...starts to fast, so we know that the fast thing really targeting that visceral fat, and so it's going for the most disease fat first and sort of getting rid of it. The subcutaneous fat and other fat, I mean, cortisol can play a role, and estrogen dominance and other hormonal sex hormonal imbalances can sometimes make that a little bit more challenging to lose. But it really does seem with our therapeutic protocols that we do, that the fast thing makes a dramatic dent in that visceral fat right off the bat. Wow. Okay, So it sounds like to answer that question that perhaps the brain does not, like the hypothalamus, does not try to automatically replace the visceral fat compared to subcutaneous which people aesthetically might want to lose, the body might be a little bit more resistant to burning that. It's very interesting, super curious. So when you have fatty liver, how much actual fat is that we're fatty spleen or fatty pancreas, like, is there like a pound of fat in the liver or how much can it be? Well, everyone, livers can vary in size, and even a mild amount of fat in the liver that's even just a couple of ounces can cause a lot of disruption. I think if you're to have all full pounds of fat in the liver, I would cause a tremendous amount of disruption. Would probably be a lot of roses at that point. But I'm not quite sure how to exactly quantify that. Okay, I've always wondered that. I just yeah, I was just super curious some other questions. So, Markers, I've wondered this for so long because I would listen to your work in Dr Phune's work, and you guys always talk about the clinic. I have a very vague picture of what that looks like. So what is it like actually working with these patients? Like how often do you see them? What blood work do you do? Do you coach them? What is that whole experience? Like we're all online now, but our our online model is the exact same that it was in clinic. Online just enables us to have a broader reach. We had a three year way less than clinic, but we're confined by clinic space and hours and insurance coverage and stuff like that. So so it's now online, so it's a little bit different than going to the doctor's office, but it still functions the same. So typically, if someone was to sort of engage in all aspects of the practice, if they're an insulin dependent diabetic for about three months, they're going to be seen weekly by their doctor and weekly by their health coach. When someone is a diabetic on oral medications only, they're seen every two weeks by the doctor until they're off of those medications, and they're also seen every two weeks, well week to two weeks by their health coach, depending on how much support that they need. If someone is looking for weight loss only, then they're typically seen by the telemedicine docs once a month, and then their amounts of engagement with their health coach can vary from weekly to to buy weekly. The health coaches are there, the doctors in general make a prescribe fasting and nutritional recommendation, and the health coaches are there to help the individuals optimize that. Saying, you know Dr Lee or doctor pat Iguana um, if someone's working with me and I want the client to do a combination of three four to forty two hour fasts a week, which is not something uncommon that we want a client to work our way up to. The health coach would then help the client work their way out to that. So it might be starting off with you know, fourteen hour fast daily and slowly working to twenty fours and mixing in some longer fast and then the health coach helps troubles shoot the different side effects that they're having, and the the telemedicine doc helps troubleshoot medical side effects, so medical side effectivey, you know, someone has a gout flare up when they start fasting, for example, that would have to be managed through through medications. So so they kind of split the duties on helping to manage the side effects. And then we offer you know, group support as well, because not many people in our communities are actually doing this, you know, with COVID, being stuck at home a little bit more because I was in Toronto for the first year of the pandemic, you know, I was my unit with my husband and I and we eat the same and then we relocated to California during COVID and a lot of our friends out here are very real food oriented and they all, you know, sort of work in Silicon Valley and they all you know, do tr and try to do you know, twenty four hour fast once a week. So it was really cool. And then recently I had a birthday. I've been...

...going through some stuff this year, and a bunch of my friends thought it would be great to fly down from Toronto. And I haven't really lived life with these people for like since twenty nineteen because of COVID and our move, and I just kind of believe the way that they ate it was just kind of mind boggling to me. And I found myself, you know, reaching out to my team because it was just, you know, it was tough to watch people I care about eating a certain way. You don't want to be preachy. You want your friends to you know, enjoy their time with you, but you want to find a balance between helping them and leading by example. And then you know, certain restaurants that was just total garbage, like fast food, where they wanted to stop and it was just difficult. So, you know, we do a lot of these large group supports on various topics, from diabetic to women and weight loss to people doing extended fast two different dietary approaches. I truly don't necessarily agree with any one whole approach as long as it's a real food based Like I've seen carnivore radically change somebody's life, and I've seen carnivore or not necessarily be the best dietary choice for some individual. And then there's someone like me who I would love to thrive off of it. I love to just be a carnivore, but it doesn't it does not work for me, or my hormone is very very well. So I know through nutra genomics testing and just knowing common sense by how I respond to foods. You know, still love my animal protein and my animal foods, but they're not the dominant part of my diet. So we offer all these different supports for these different types of dietary protocols. So there's a lot of group support, group engagement. We do challenges so people can do it together. I mean, I've always found this to be really cool. In my household, my husband and I are doing kind of a unique protocol right now, and it's just so cool to be able to have someone that's doing this same thing, to be able to check in with, so you wanted to make sure that you know, are people that are going through this had those options to where they didn't have to be doing this this alone because they didn't have the good fortune of their household doing it with them as well. Friends, I'm about to tell you how you can get off a product that has truly changed my life. Do you experience stress or anxiety or chronic pain? Do you have trouble sleeping at least once a week? If you do, trust me, you're not alone. I personally have explored so many avenues for how to have a healthy relationship with stress and finding the world of cebed oil has been absolutely incredible for that. After doing more and more research, I realized just how incredible the health benefits of cbed are. 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I really like, I don't want to try to convince anybody to do anything, and I just want people to live their lives. And but it is hard, especially when you see like you mentioned, friends and family engaging in eating habits that you know, are probably just having a really detrimental effect on their health. And then the thing that really gets to me that makes me sad is like all of these instagram and social media of moms with like their young kids and making all of these like desserts and treats and everything, and I'm and I'm just like, uh, because if at least, if you're an adult, you know you're making the choices. But when we're young kids, like we're eating what we're fed. And so I think I think there's a big issue there in society, and I don't really know what the answer is. It's really tough. This morning, actually I saw from the mind from home and her and her son were drinking and this just her endous sugar I see concoction thing, and I'm like, oh my gosh, Like this kid has speech delay issues and learning delayed issues, and like what are you doing? But it really makes it tough. The social relationships are, you know, really really difficult. I think, you know what a common friend that brought us together with Cynthia Turlough, And I mean she's someone I've really been able to sort of lean on while I've gone through some health stuff. This year because I know she relates, she can get it. You know, it's not even just for the information, it's just for that mutual understanding, because it can make it really difficult when people don't, and it's hard with kids. I think I noted that I was a really private person until recently, until the pandemic. And we have Life in the Fasting Line coming out, and I wanted people to read that book and not just think, you know this, they look ten years younger than I am. You know, those are the only good genes I inherited. But I know part of it's due to my lifestyle too, But I look younger than I am, and uh, you know, I like quite healthy, and I wanted people to really take me seriously, like I've walked in your shoes. I know what it's like. You know, I'm not just some young, healthy person making suggestions out of thin air like I've I've lived. I breathed this stuff personally, not just working with people. So I started telling my story on social media and really kind of opening up, like I never wanted people to follow me as social media. Uh, and I didn't even use my real name for like most of my time on social media but all of that changed, and because I'm like, no, like, this book can help a lot of people, and I need people to understand that I'm worth while listening to because I've been there. So I started sharing. And actually it's amazing the number of friends that sort of distanced themselves from me when I started doing that, and in conversations it was because, you know, fear judgment about how I would look at what they're doing with their kids and how they just don't know what to do and they're not also too busy and too unwell to even really figure out what to do, so it's very complicated. I think that part makes me sad to that second part, because I like, that is the effect I would not want to have, because I do want to be accepting and I would never like it makes me really sad to think people would think if I'm judging them. So it's just such a complicated, you know line. I'm curious your husband you mentioned in the book when did you get married? We got married in Okay, and you mentioned that even at the wedding. I want to make sure it was you, not even didn't you use even like small plates at the wedding on purpose? It was a smaller wedding and we had small plates at this God married at this sort of Spanish tap us steakhouse. So everything, all of the plates and everything was a little bit on the tinier side of things. But that's the strategy that we have to because my husband will eat whatever is on his plate. And this is something he picked up early on our relationship. And you realized that if he had a large plate, he need everything, but if he had a smaller plate, he would he would need it everything and needs still be satisfied. So the objective of finishing his plate and clearing it is what satisfied him. So he realized he didn't need as much food. So having small plates and doing that intentionally has been a big part of sort of our relationship and celebrations that we have with people and purchasing choices at Great and Barrel never wede new dishes, but yes, we had we had small plates and tap us and stay at our wedding. You mentioned something in the book about how I think when you're talking to the wedding planner or whoever it was, and they'd never really been asked to have smaller plates at the at the wedding. I think it's so great. There's a lot of stuff in the book about just you know, practically practical implementations you can make, because I'm all about optimizing or environment to be in your favor. So for your husband, so does he do fasting with you at all? Or what is that like? And so it's so funny. I met my husband an engagement party in Orlando. I was living in Toronto and he was living in San Francisco. And then he was just very persistent. So you know, the next thing I...

...knew I was in a long distance relationship. And then the next thing, I was engaged because the long distance relationship was nuts. And you know, we got We got married a year after our first date, thirteen months after our first date rather so everything happened pretty quickly. And for the for the first few months of our relationship, you know, I only saw him like every other week, right, I would go to San Francisco, he come to Toronto. I didn't have clinics Thursday afternoon or Friday, so it made it more easy for me to me to come and asked to be able to maintain a long distance relationship that in American Express travel points so we were so we saw each other, and yeah, it was pretty easy to kind of hide my fasting and my diet when we ate together. He did notice, even on our first date that I didn't shy away from eating fatty foods, and he commented on that that he thought it was pretty cool because I think he thought, you know, getting us serious female companion a partner meant that he was going to have to say a goodbye to Butter, but he commented. And then finally, like things were happening, like the the Obesity Code, we were going through edit for that it was going to come out, and me and I said to him, Okay, like I need to explain to you more about what I also do for for a living, because I was also doing neprology still at that point too, I was kind of fifty fifty split because we just, you know, it wasn't really until the BCD Code came out that things started to go absolutely insane and we suddenly had a two or three year wait list. But my husband's a scientist and he's also the youngest child, so I think the combination of both can make him a very rebellious person. So he loved this idea right away off off the cuff, you know, without even looking at it, that maybe you know things were wrong. And you know, he had struggled with weight after grad school and he just didn't think it should have been as difficult because he was doing all of the all of the right things, and he was just so quick to regain the weight. He went on our website and like devoured our blog, and then I gave him like an advanced copy of the b CD code. It wasn't the final edit, but it was when we were allowed to circulate to certain people and that was it. He was like, this makes perfect sense. So his his rebellious nature made him curious and his scientists made it very easy for him to understand, and he began implementing it. And actually, you know, before we got married, he lost almost forty pounds, which was very cool. So he was able to lose that post grad school weight that he had been struggling with. It was just really neat. So we we, depending on where we typically followed the same eating routine all of the time. Recently, we've been trying to conceive. He started working back in office and gained a little bit of weight after sort of indulging in actually working with colleagues again in person, and just eating out a little bit too much. So he's been me more fasting than I have. But right now where he's trying to gain some muscle mass after losing some weight, we're doing an interesting spin on the twenty four hour protocol right now. Most people think of the twenty four hour protocol as you would just pass from dinner last night to dinner tonight for approximately twenty four hours. So you would today, you know, as your the thick of your fasting day, you would skip breakfast in lunch. But because of him struggling a little bit with some things and my fertility journey and trying to get sort of the best of everything right now because I'm recovering from some some bizarre side effects of taking berbery in earlier this year in liver damage, so I'm trying to do some some fastening but getting a ton of micronutrients. So we're doing this weird spin where we're eating two meals a day, but we're still getting in a twenty four hour fast. So today is a breakfast in lunch day, mind you are. Breakfast was like to three hours after we we wake up and he's gone to the gym already. So breakfast and lunch, and tomorrow we'll do lunch and dinner. Then we'll do breakfast and lunch and then lunch and dinner, and breakfast and lunch and lunch and dinner. So I'm still getting in all of the nutrients. I think now I need them more than ever after being so sick with with a key liver failure for six weeks. So getting in all of those micronutrients, but still getting in some really therapeutic fasting time to boost my mitochondrial health and just to help, you know, with the recovery from the liver issues. So that's a it's a protocol. I haven't actually worked with a client before, and I was actually trying to help my husband out and trying to figure out his weight training, and he was just becoming Then you get to a point sometimes in maintenance, we often see with people where they don't really eat, but they don't really fast, and it's not necessarily disordered, but the body, you know, ends up becoming a bit deficient, and uh, you know, I start to tell his adrenals were getting pretty taxed. So we're just trying to make sure he's getting an adequate protein with...

...everything that he's doing, but he's still getting in fastening, still getting in you know that human growth hormone that's going to help him gain lean mass too. So this is a protocol we're trying. So it's that it's my husband's second week starting today, he did it last week, and it's my first week trying it out. So we often sync up in our household on our plans. I was super curious about how you met him and how you handled all of that with your eating, because I was wondering if it was going to be similar to me, because I just find it so funny that I've been doing intermitten fasting for so long. I have, you know, a top iTunes show called the Intermittent Fasting Podcast. And still when I meet people, I am nervous about bringing it up, not as much as I used to be. It's like you have to ease in until they find out and they like find out what you do with your diet and lifestyle choices. So how long were you dating him before you gave him the obusity code? Galle? It was it was our sixth date and we were about three and a half months in because we can we can see each other all the time, so we have these three to four day long dates periodically. This date, he said, you know, like I I don't expect to you to move to California. He's like, I'm perfectly fine moving to Toronto. I know all of your families there. You keep talking about this interesting side project that you're doing at the clinic. I had told him, like, I didn't I didn't want to drink sit so I wasn't gonna go into it too much. He said, obviously, you know, you're really passionate to see where this goes. You know, hopefully one day we we'll talk about it a bit more. And he's like, but like, you know, I just feel that we should. You should know that I'm really committed. And I'm like, I don't want you to end this relationship because you don't want to move to San Francisco. I want you to know that I will move to to to Toronto. And it was just so funny, and I was like, well about that side project I'm doing, And so I explained to him, you my health journey and our experis the clinic and sort of Jason's findings and what we started to do with patients. And it was so funny because he's a medicinal chemist by trade and he was working at a pharmaceutical company on a drug for nonalcoholic fatty liver disease, and they were getting shot down left, right and center, like they like this. It was disastrous, Like there's no med pharmaceuticals out there for fatty liver disease. Everything dies in like phase one or phase two trials. So he had a different type of understanding of this process and he was just so uniquely intrigued. And he grew up in a Puerto Rican household and he grew up with an avocado tree in his back in your yard in central Florida, So I mean he grew up eating things like tons of pork and pork fat and avocados, and you know, they didn't have money. Growing up. There was a single single mother, you know how ushold his dad wasn't there two young boys that she had a feed, So like everything was home cooked, home cooked, home cooked. They didn't have a luxury that I did of not liking what was for dinner and ordering from pizza, you know, pizza hud or Dominoes or McDonald's. Those were not luxuries to them. So in my husband said, you know, growing up, we were always super splendor, very healthy. But when he went off to grad school and he had more money from grants and scholarships, and he started partaking and you know, wing night and all of the beers of Eugene, Oregon because that's where he went to grad school, he very easily started to pack on the pounds. So you know, he ate all of these healthy fads. He need half a dozen eggs for breakfast, you know, as a teenage boy growing up, but he went need any of this junk. So he was really intrigued the whole, you know, in one hypothesis and a meal timing aspect of things. They didn't grow up with snack foods at home because they couldn't afford them. And then when he got into university and grad school and started snacking all the time, you know, the way really started creeping up. So a lot of this made sense, you know, not just from his scientific standpoint, our mind perspective, and made sense from his own personal experience with his weight game journey too. So another question, you're currently working on the fertility treatment and everything for you know, hopefully conceiving kids. And we get so many questions about this on the Intermitten Fasting podcast Fasting and Women. There are so many misconceptions, you know, will it hurt fertility? Will it help fertility? How should you handle fertility? So what have you found in the clinic and with yourself as far as fasting and females? Is it dangerous at all? Can women fast daily? So many so much fear. There's so many crazy things out there from so many people that have never fast that a woman in their life,...

...and it's so bizarre what I read online. Yeah, Like, we've worked with over forty thousand people worldwide at this point, with about seventy percent of them being females, ranging in all different age groups. And we have one colleague, Dr Nadia Pataguana. She co authored the PCOS Plan with Jason, and we joke she's our baby whisper and what we do when it comes to fertility and a lot of these younger women with PCOS or even you know, a middle aged woman. I'm a middle aged woman, a young husband. How to do the math on that? The other day? Uh and I and I declared that but that are looking to conceive that had pc US. You know, we treat the pcos first, so with them, you know, we do pretty advanced therapeutic fasting protocols, so you know, sort of three twenty four to forty two hour fasts a week or to forty eight hour fasts a week, and we'll do this for about six months, and we find it even if a woman does have a bit of a regular period, that it will be your regular for about three or four months. But that's a good sign that it's working. And then by about six months everything starts to start to normalize and then the PMS symptoms and everything are gone. And for a woman who don't have a regular period, usually within about four to six months they start to have a very regular, predictable cycle. There's one young woman in the clinic. She's twenty one. You're difficult, twenty one year old, right, She's she's a great young woman. I'm still in touch that her mom dragged her in and she's like, my daughter doesn't want kids now, but she's going to want to have the option in ten years, so now, so I don't want her stupids, her stupidness to hunter. Hunter. At that point I want her to have options, and she hasn't had a period in two years. So the mom left left the room, and the daughter said, listen, like, I work at McDonald's. I'm a college student. I live off of loans and government support and going out and buying a bunch of fancy food. And she's like, I have to work forty hours a week well going to school, so I don't have time to cook fancy food or cook any food. And I get free food at work. So I said, okay. So we shook on a fasting protocol for her, and I wasn't going to bug her about her eating, but she couldn't snack on her eating days. She could only eat in to sixty minute windows, sixty to ninety minute windows, and that was it. So she could eat safe from twelve to one thirty and say from five to six thirty, but she couldn't eat in between. And if she did this fascinating protocol, I want bug her about any food. Three months later, she had her first period, and then she's had like she's now in her mid twenties and we connect all the time and think she just FROMED twenty seven. She's had regular periods since and now she's all into optimizing her diet and and it's really kind of evolved, and she's grateful for the choices that she's made. So we do these more intensive protocols in woman to fix the insulain issues. So PCOS is largely insulin driven problem. So we fixed the insulin resistance. I may fix the PCOS first with these women, and then once that issue has been rectified, then we focus more on meal timing and nutrient density with these women as they go into you know, trying to conceive. So that's sort of our you know, our our general approach. You doing a P twenty for our fast here and there's perfectly fine. Doing the longer odd fast or longer fast is also not going to be problematic. But it was so funny years ago there's this slew a woman that started having fraternal twins after doing a longer fast and I just never really got like connected the dots, and neither did Jason. Why would they start suddenly having twins and they no family history of twins, always fraternal twins, and it just kind of seeing bizarre Meal figured there's got to be some family history of twins that that they don't know about. We had no rhyme or reason for it. But now that I'm going through some futility stuff because I've been having issues since the liver reaction to berberine earlier this year, and just realizing like, I'm a I'm about to start my second round of i VSH to to make some embryos, and this time they're they're putting me on human growth hormone. And I didn't really put together the dots. So we got the we got the email from the clinic of what my meds were going to be, and then the email from the pharmacy with the cost and so the human growth hormone, of course is crazy expensive. And my husband just turned to me and he's like, can you just do a five day fast and we can save you know, three thousand dollars here, And I just started to laugh, and I was like, oh, for ovarian stimulation. And so I'm like, all these women are doing five day fast and producing all this team and growth hormone and and stimulating their ovaries at the right time and their cycle, and they're producing multiple mature eggs and that's why they end up that we have all these... twins in the keto fasting communities is kind of kind of neat and don't put the thoughts together until my own experience with us. Now my husband's quirky joke because he'd rather that money go towards the sports car funds and uh then then you then grow hormone, so it's uh anyways, it was kind of kind of funny. So but usually once we reverse the insulin issues and we just really focus on the nutrients. So what we have, what we're dealing with, especially like in the PCUS generation, is we have a combination of women being extremely overnourished and malnourished at the same time. So they're overnourished and the sense that they have tons of fat, tons of stored food fuel, but none of that fat and none of the foods that you know, they consumed that raiser insulin and caused the fat storage. We're nutrient depths. In fact, they're very nutrient depleting and causing other issues like leaky gut and you get twos biosies and gastric issues like ibs that made it even more difficult to absorb what every little nutrients were in those foods to start with. So we've got these people that are overnourished in the sense of body fat, but undernourished in the sense that they have all of these nutrient deficiencies. So nutrients, micronutrients are so important for for egg quality and just for the beetle development. So what we'll do is we'll tackle the insulin, We'll do pretty aggressive fastening, and then you know, once the PCOS issue is resolved, then we'll work more on meal timing and more with their diet. Looks like in the micro nutrients. I always assumed that twins was just a genetic thing or a chance thing, but there is literature on the actual number of eggs or or the setup or the human growth hormone and how that correlates to twins well. So not not exactly from a fastening for suspective, but it's a very commonly used medication. One woman are going under IVF treatments. So the most common protocol is called the antagonistic protocol, and that doesn't require human growth hormone. But usually for women forty year older that are looking to try to conceive, then taging a protocol works well for the younger PCOS women. So as a woman gets older, their ovaries need more stimulation. So I know, I'm coming out of the tail end of your nearly dying from bloody berberine, and so my body, you know, I'm fighting with it to get healthy to want to conceive. So my ovaries need a little bit of a cake in the butt because prior to my liver issue, I had tons of hollicles all on my own without stimulation, and then I had to liver issue, and my body is struggling to recover a bit. So so if you're in an issue where you have decreased ovarian reserves and your your ovaries are a little bit sluggish to respond for various reasons, but usually for a woman is just aging, they will give you human growth hormone to help stimulate your ovaries so you produce more follicles and produce more mature follicles so you're gonna get more eggs. So this is very common in IVF practices for women that are forty and older. Women low ovarian reserves to take human growth hormone as part of their protocol. So like the one I'm referring to is the Lupron micro dose flare protocol, and this one commonly uses human growth hormone for a variant stimulation. There was part of part of it with the loopron for the variance stimulation. So there's tons of infertility research that shows if you give a woman human growth hormone, you're going to stimulate their ovarach. They're going to produce more follicles, which will you know, likely produce more eggs and more eggs to be released. So I mean, I'm I'm taking where I'm about to start taking this on Thursday to help my body produce more mature eggs. So when I do have my egg retrieval, you know, I'll have eggs for them to collect. So when we look at fasting, we produce a ton of human growth, and a moment or fasting nineteen hours, twenty two hours, twenty four hours, twenty nine hours, there's a spike that it continues to go through these intermittent cycles of spiking, you know, for a solid seventy two hours, and then even after that it stays relatively high and in stable and production. So you get a woman that's doing a five day fast, I mean, it's kind of like taking human growth hormone injections for a week. Like I'm about to start to do it would definitely have an impact then on the ovarys. So just looking at regular research on infertility and IBF, there's tons of dat us to support, you know, the the use of human growth hormones is a standard of care for stimulating ovaries and increasing the number of eggs that are being produced each cycle. So it's very interesting. I can never figure this out. Why there is this one woman. I think she's and...

...she's on her PhD and nutrition and I think she's now just a very busy mom, but chronic issues with infertility. IVF was never financially in the cards. She was just trying and struggling to lose weight. So we were at low Card back and Ridge. Jason had just spoke and then he was doing a Q and A afterwards. You know, she went up and she gave him a really hard time about why she wasn't losing weight. He just I think it was a little bit flabbergassid because she was really reaming into him, and he said, well, to do a five day fast. So she went home and she did a five day fast and the months later she had a positive pregnancy tests and you know, nine months late, well, eight months later she had twin boys who are fraternal twins. So and then she's since gone on to have a third child, and she was the last time we chatted with her, she was actually going into doing research on this, But I think there's a strong connection anyway. There's tons of tons of literature to support keepan growth hormone and regular infer two for for stimulating ovaries and producing eggs. So it's just a really fascinating, fascinating if you can do that with fascinating Hi, friends, I am obsessed with clean air, and I'm about to tell you how you can get fifty percent off my new favorite air purifier brand. Did you know that in two thousand nine, less than ten of the eight five thousand chemicals registered for commercial use had undergone basic testing for safety. This is very troublesome. These chemicals, as well as toxins like carbon monoxide, lead, nitrogen dioxide, and ozone, regularly appear in our air and environment, along with things like dust, mold, pollen and pet dander, smoke, viruses, and bacteria, as well as toxic compounds known as volatile organic compounds v o c s. All of these compounds can trigger allergies and contribute to our overall toxic burden. 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All right, now back to the show. I have to ask you what the burberine. Was that a unique experience for you or is that a concern for people taking bourbonine? So I never took it throughout my my history with metabolic issues, right, I had buddy liver pcus, and then I really got worse and I suddenly gained weight. Everything seemed to get worse, and then I developed type two diabetes. So you know, I went from skinny fat to just fat inside and outside and had all of these diseases, and I was terrified. Like all I did was watch people I care about die day in and day out at the clinic, so you know, talk, I was surrounded by motivation every work day, and my work days were long, so it made it really easy for me to be compliant as heck with it. And in six months, you know, I plodded through consistently and I reversed my condition, and I so I never took for breath throughout my own journey. But you learn about it, and you see some compelling data on it, and you hear other practitioners results with it working with patients, and you hear the patient's results. So it's something for years I recommended professionally. And then when... husband and I are trying to conceive, I wanted to be a mom since like before I could probably talk and express that I wanted to be a mom. You know, it's it's just it's just it's been my biggest want in life. So sometimes when we're so blinded by passion for things, we don't necessarily do things that makes sense. I'm very healthy individual usually, so there was really no need for me to take berberine to heiden my insulin sensitivity and to balance my sex hormones. You know, I was managing all of that very fine. Everything was pretty optimal. But this is my My biggest goal was to be a mom. And yeah, I am very fortunate to be immersed in such a unique community of wellness experts and people said, well, it certainly went hurt to take berberine and a nost hole. And I had taken a noste hole here and there to help with some sleep, especially when I was bouncing back between Toronto and San Francisco during the early stages of my relationship with my husband, and I found that to be helpful, and I thought, you know what, it probably won't hurt. And about ten days after I started taking just a low dose of berberine, I was taking a thousand milegrams twice a day, where it's just sort of a standard dose for metabolic syndrome and metabolic maintenance. And sleep, so I was taking it twice a day. About ten days later, I thought I had food poisoning, and then if food poisoning didn't go away, then I thought I had stomach flu. And I thought I had maybe picked up like that novo virus because I love to eat oysters. But actually we had been so busy, and we've been eating at home a ton, and we hadn't been going out as much, and my husband said, we haven't had them. Melissa's is like the world's longest delayed reaction for expressing symptoms to something. And then I just continued to get more and more sick. Now, the funny thing was, is you know during that time when if you've had food poisoning or the stomach flu, you know your stomach supersensitive and you can really not tolerate a lot. So you know, here I am just like I was actually just supposed to, Like we're just starting fertility stuff, and I'm all obsessed with wanting to get my nutrient status just perfect, you know, the perfect amount of colin and this, and that. I'm not letting myself fast very much or I'm trying not to, so I would eat things like a little bit of soft sweet potato here and there, very stupidly, but because that's what I was eating. The only supplements I would take were then anaza tole in the berberine because I was having sarchy foods while my stomit was upset. And then I've been sick for six weeks. I've been in and out of the hospital. No one could figure out what was wrong. My livery numbers are awful. It was just a massive I surrendered and I just fast it like actually went for ten days is without having anything, not even broth, just water and the occasional cup of tea here and there, and that was it. I lost like fourteen pounds in two weeks on point. It was just it was not not good. But the only supplement that I was taking consistently because I'd sneak in some of the starts here and there, was the burbery. But during those fourteen days where I fasted, I didn't take any burberine because I wasn't eating, or I wasn't taking any a noszel because I wasn't eating. So I though I had totally recovered. Then I started eating again, start taking those supplements, and sure enough everything went to heck. So I have this brilliant functional doctor who helped me put the pieces of the puzzle together one day and he's like, this is this is berberine, and he's like, I don't, like, I've never seen this reaction before, but it's like, that's got to be it because you've taken a nosgel and you're fine. So then one day I just took burberine and no other supplements and I sure enough, I ended up being very sick and I ended up going back into the hospital with the hyde ration. So it was it was just super wild. So we don't know exactly what happened. But once I literally throughout the bobine three days later, I was totally fine. A week later, I had a stake uh and I was totally fine. My g I system had gone back to almost normal pretty quickly. It was pretty gnarly. So I was talking to Dr James nicol Antonio and he thinks he thinks that, you know, it could be due to be a weird be one deficiency that he also shares on social media that he has. And I knew I had issues clearing some lactic acid because you know, I would just have too much delayed onset muscle soreness compared to you know, Piers after working out, So I wonder not quite sure why that is. But the thing is, my my husband found this Reddit thread where there's all these people that had an exact same reaction to me. They're usually low carbors and the cold bene city...

...that we're trying to take burberine to help optimize things. About a week to two later, had this terrible g I reaction. All thought it was food poisoning England and stamic flu. Then they started eating some of these soft starches like I did, but would continue to take the burberine, and then you know, several weeks later, you know, they succumbed to the fact that it was likely the berberine stopped and a week later they were feeling fine and they could eat what they wanted. And it takes longer for the body and everything to to recover on labs and and just recover from the stress and the trauma of it all. That's really interesting. So there's this there's tons of these reports online, Like my husband sent me this red thread and a story after story after story, and then I went online and I found all these forms of people talking about it. And then I connected with a couple of other functional health practitioners and they said that they had seen this sometimes too, but they can never really figure out why. And then I was just recently chatting with Cynthia Turlough and she had us had a conversation with a colleague just about how you know it's is overused in the first place, and that it does cause you know, some some pretty intense gastart distress, and but it's not as severe as as I experience. So it was really wild, definitely really wild experience. So right as we were, we were trying to do IVF out of luxury, just so we could bank a bunch of embryos because I'm getting older and I don't want to be rushed to have kids. So we had already started the process when this had happened. So of course, under regular circumstances, you wouldn't be able to conceive when you're experiencing liver trauma and liver failure. So so our first round of IVF and ended up just not being a worthwhile pursuit. But now I was able to start eating supplements and eating like a normal person again. At some point in May. We're hoping for better luck this round of IVF. First of all, I am so so sorry that you went through that experience. That sounds really awful. It's really interesting to hear it, especially because I'm a huge fan of Berberine and I take it daily and I'm going to produce a supplement version of it as well. I think that's so important for people to understand that, you know, with any supplement that you could have, you know, a reaction like that. So it's definitely something to keep in mind and be aware of. So again, so sorry. I shared it with my community too, and I said, I'm not like I've seen it do some really awesome things, but it's just being aware that if you start to experience, like a week later, some of the g I issues, maybe stop it, don't don't try to try to push it, and just a reminder to always just introduce one new thing at a time. So I think I'm just that one fortunate you know, one in ten million in this particular case, or you know one in a hundred thousand or whatever it is. But I mean everything you know the kit has the potential to you know, sort of be harmful to the particular individual. So that's just a person thing slowly and with caution. I think, yes, definitely. And so when you have children or a child, which I'm sure you will putting it out to the universe, have you thought about how you would handle raising him or her in this whole diet world and fasting world and food world, Like what would you do as a mom? It's tough once they get to a certain age. I think before they go to school. You know that our goal and things that my husband and I've talked about, as you know, we love a vegetable garden, and really getting kids into cooking. My parents never got me into cooking, like cooking was always thought to be this dreaded shore in the house. And so you know, obviously I heard this need of egorquote your kids don't do what you say, they do what you do. And I did what my parents did when it came to food. I dreaded cooking. I dreaded the whole experience of grocery shopping. But both my parents did so just trying to, you know, do what I want them to do, like leaning by example in our household. And you know, my my husband grew up having to cook a lot, and having deeed at home a lot, and he's a chemist, so he loves, you know, cooking at home. It's his his lab in the house, so sort of monopolizing on you know, his desire and everything I've learned, and just trying to make it fun, like really including them, you know, making things really colorful, really tasty, and sort of that being their initial experience with food when I can control it. And then it's of course when they go to school. Like I was actually thinking this morning, I saw like the whole Caprice sign recall thing, and I'm like, oh my gosh, Like people shouldn't be drinking that anyways, like let alone when it's got like cleaners that are improperly put into it, and I have to do this this recall, and I thought, oh my gosh, like my kids going to friends homes and my kids just even going to school, and all of the snacks that they try to try to feed you at school. We were actually in the UK, London,...

...visiting friends, and our friends kids at that time went to the same school as Prince William and Kate Middelesohn's oldest son and daughter, and I guess they're they're very active parents. So William was actually there dropping off little Prince George and Princess Charlotte. So we're talking like, this is not your you know, your school that you know sort of in this dark alley and you know, and not very nice neighborhood. I mean, this is a very like the tuition was nuts, Like tuition is more than my mortgage every year. Like it's just kind of nuts for for one student. And so there's a good chance that most of these kids ate breakfast at home. But as they were walking into school, and my friend brought me because he wanted to show me what this experience was like, they're literally handing out juice boxes and slices to toasts to these kids when they were walking came into school. He said, everyone here is paying, you know, thousands and thousands of dollars for their kids to be here. Look at us, you know, I knew who he was. He's like, I'm you know, we're parked behind Prince William. Like these kids have food at home. You know, we're not in neighborhoods of poverty here, and they're already feeding our kids a second breakfast the moment they walk into school at eight am, which is just just wild. So I'm nervous about that. So I think at that point it's, you know, it's I don't want to be too restrictive with them. They've I think they've got to learn how to make their own choices and navigate. So set them up with a good foundation, you know, really celebrate and enjoy the art of cooking at home, teach them and see how they sort of respond when they go out there. I've admired sort of Will Cole's approach. I've watched him over the years, and he's his kids. His son is older now, and his son's has made a funny comment not that long ago I saw on Instagram where I guess Will was mad at him and his son said, Dad, just be happy. The only thing I micro dos is gluten. I wanted to sort of die laughing. But you know, Will said, they made food fun at home for the kids, and they taught them and then they let them go out there and make their own choices. But they realized when they did eat lots of sugar and did eat lots of you know, process junk food, that they didn't feel good, and that they wanted to feel good so on their own, they started to make some wise decisions. So so there's people like him who I really watched and kind of see what they do at home. And you know, I think Cynthia a friend, she's got two boys, and I think they're they're quite healthy, successful young men. And I mean, obviously her and her husband had done a great example of leading by example at home, eating well in and out of the household. So I think that's just gonna be my approach. But it is definitely, uh, definitely a scary approach when I think of things like Helloween, and you know, it's gonna be tough to to watch. You know, my kids have to sort of navigate through some of those experiences, and you don't want to lock them up on Halloween and have them good chick or treating something Ben BigMan does on a holiday like Halloween, because everyone ever went around here starting to get ready for it, even though it's still a few months away or a couple of months away. As I his kids are allowed to pick like one candy, and then they were allowed to trade candies for other toys or other things crafts that they were interested in. So him and his wife would have some things, and I thought that was really neat. So I'm just trying to devour all of the approaches of these people around me and and see, you know, how how we can help them make these decisions and you know, find find a lifestyle that it's going to be healthy for them. Amongst who knows what the world's gonna look like. I person I know, I'm a friend from this area recently left the corporate barbecue because they only had like beyond meat burgers at the corporate barbecue and they said, well, the company said, well, everybody can eat these, and they're like, no, I eat real food. This is not real food, so not everybody can eat these and they laugh. So it's, uh, the world's going kind of weird, even more so every day with food. So we'll see at the universe is like whence we have them? And they're old enough? Hi, friends, So what I'm about to say may include some disturbing content, so if young ones are listening, you may want to skip ahead. On Valentine's Day, I experienced sexual battery by a man at a massage parlor. I felt so helpless and so scared while it was happening, and afterwards I was really really scared to tell anybody. I'm so glad that my friends encouraged me to tell the police, and I'm so glad that the police believed me and that the man is now in jail. And ever since sharing my story, you guys have been so supportive. So many people have applauded me for telling the police, saying that something like that had happened to them too, and they never told anybody. I started looking into the statistics and they are pretty shocking. So sexual assaults...

...are most likely the most prevalent crime in the US, and they are also the most underreported. Every sixty eight seconds, an American is sexually assaulted, so I was one of those. Every nine minutes that victim is a child. Meanwhile, only twenty five out of every one thousand perpetrators will end up in prison, and only five percent of sexual assault reports filed have ever been proven false. Two percent of all juvenile sexual assault victims are female, of adult rape victims are female, and in two thousand nineteen, over six hundred and fifty two thousand, six hundred and seventy six women were raped and nearly one million women were victims of sexual assault. I believe this is a huge, huge problem happening in our society. It's one of the crimes where there's not usually evidence. It's not like a physical object was stolen or somebody outwardly injured or killed. It's basically your word against the perpetrator. And so it can be really really ry to tell somebody and stand up for yourself. But I want to encourage you that we can change this. We can speak up. So if something happens to you, I encourage you, please please tell somebody. I promise you you're not crazy. The thing that really convinced me to go to the police was it wasn't so much about me, but about stopping this man from doing this to somebody else. If you feel like someone crossed the boundary, they probably did. People don't usually question things that are appropriate and normal. And as parents, I encourage you to have these conversations with your children in whatever time and way you feel comfortable. I think we can make change here. It's just about spreading awareness and taking a stand and speaking out. So thank you everybody so much for the support. I love you all. You are amazing, and let's change this. So, like I always say, you got this Okay, back to the show. I do think it's a little bit problematic because you don't want to enforce people to have to eat any certain way. But it's frustrating because on the one hand, like I feel like there could be legalization around things that could have profound health effects, Like I know I had Dr Robert Lasting on the show from Metabolical, and I know he would love to see regulation on fructose, for example. So it's like there's so much potential there, but then you don't want to force things on people. And then on the flip side, though, we get this stuff where stuff does get enforced, and I don't know that it's the best thing ever, like these meatless mondays and stuff in schools, and it's just it's just frustrating. What I'm really hoping is I would love to see a book from you all about you could talk about like females fasting and fertility, and then after you have kids, like having kids, like there's so much do you think you'll write another book in the future. Yeah, I have a book coming out to you next year that's sort of just geared a little bit more towards like women with type two diabetes, and we do talk about pcos, but I just I felt a little bit as my first solo project talking about diabetes. But I think I'm actually good to be launching a new website this fall, and it's different from our Fasting Methods stuff because it we really focus a lot on type two diabetes metabolic syndrome. But I want to start sharing, like with younger women, sort of my experience with all of this fertility stuff and all of the things that I'm navigating as I'm trying to figure out breast feeding and postpartum I'm recovery, which is a lot of thybrade management that I rode management. I rode management, transitioning kids to foods. It's hard to find like a concrete resource out there. So that's that's a project for sure that I wanna I want to tackle the upcoming years. Oh, I love it. Well, hopefully I would love to have you back for the book that comes out in June. If you're down, that would be amazing. Well, this has been absolutely incredible. It's so wonderful to finally connect with you. I feel like I know you because I've just been following you for so long. The last question that I asked every single guest on this show, and it's just because I realize more and more how important mindset is. So, what is something that you're grateful for? Something that I am grateful for is I was just reading it sort of in my gratitude journal this morning, is that I just know that I'm so capable of change. And that's what this journey has taught me with nutrition now, and so you know, if we really practice something, that we are capable of change and growth. So that's just something that I'm really grateful for. So if someone's out there is new to fasting or is thinking about doing this little lifestyle, just consider it a practice, you know, don't consider it necessarily a diet, just a practice. And if you just keep showing up and keep practicing little by little, it will change. It will get easier, and it will change your life. And that you are capable of change. Like if I can make this impact in my health, and then anybody can. I truly believe that. And I can go from the... of McDonald's and dominoes that I had to the diet that I have today. Anybody could do that. So I was thinking of it this morning because you know, with my fertility. This liver recovery has been a little bit difficult, but I know I'm capable of that, of that change, and something Fastening has really taught me that I'm I can be really be in the driver's seat. So but you just gotta show up and keep practicing every day. I'm not sure that makes sense. I love that, And that's something I really love about you is You're just so empowering and so approachable and really are making all of this very practical to people. So you're having a profound effect on the world. And I cannot thank you enough for what you're doing. And I'm super excited for all of your future stuff. How can listeners best follow your work? You said you have a new website coming out. Yeah. Everything will be linked from our parent website, The Fastening Method dot com. So any time we've got a new book or if you're interested, we have a podcast called The Fasting Method Podcasts, Jason's author website where you'll get the information about new books He's got coming. Links to my upcoming website about the fertility journey that I'm going to be sharing. You can find out all at the Fasting Method dot com as well. As all of our social links are will be there too, awesome well for listeners. I will put links to all of that in the show notes. And again, thank you just for all that you're doing in this fabulous conversation and hopefully we can talk again in the future for one of your future books. Thank you, that'd be lovely. I really appreciate you having me on today, Melanie, And you know, happy fasting to everyone who's listening. Yes, happy fasting, have a good rest of your day. Thank you so much for listening to the Melanie Avalon bio Hacking Podcast. For more information, you can check out my book What When Wine, Lose Weight and Feel Great with Paleo style meals, Intermittent Fasting and Wine, as well as my blog Melanie Avalon doc On. Feel free to contact me at podcast at Melanie Avalon dot com and always remember you got this.

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