The Melanie Avalon Biohacking Podcast
The Melanie Avalon Biohacking Podcast

Episode 1 · 1 month ago

#174 - Janna Breslin & Evan DeMarco: Regenerative Pastures, Omnivores Vs. Vegans, Plant Based Meats, Regenerative Agriculture, Recovering Topsoil, Food Labeling & Shopping Local, Organ Meats, Food Waste, And More!

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

GET TRANSCRIPT AND FULL SHOWNOTES: melanieavalon.com/regenerativepastures

2:35 - IF Biohackers: Intermittent Fasting + Real Foods + Life: Join Melanie's Facebook Group At Facebook.com/groups/paleoOMAD For A Weekly Episode GIVEAWAY, And To Discuss And Learn About All Things Biohacking! All Conversations Welcome!

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12:30 - Janna And Evan's Beginnings

16:45 - Janna's Cancer Diagnosis

17:55 - Are Modern Agricultural Processes Necessary?

20:45 - What Is Regenerative Agriculture?

25:45 - Do We Have Enough Space To Pasture Enough Animals?

28:15 - What Is AUM Based On?

30:50 - The State Of Our Topsoil

32:30 - Can We Restore The Topsoil With Any Technology?

34:00 - What About Greenhouses Or Reintroducing Nutrients To The Soil?

35:15 - Food Waste

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39:00 - Planning Food Systems On Another Planet

42:00 - The Morality Of Eating Living Creatures

45:35 - The Backlash On Social Media

48:15 - Is It Possible To Get Enough Protein As A Vegan?

50:50 - Nutritional Profile Of Feed Lot Animals Vs Grass Fed

52:30 - Omega-6 To Omega-3 Ratios In Meat

57:10 - Fish And Toxins

58:35 - Detoxing Mercury

1:01:05 - Cryotherapy And Ice Baths

1:01:04 - Toxins In Conventionally Raised Livestock

1:07:30 - Methods To Reducing Stress Of The Animals

1:12:00 - Do Livestock Have Better Lives Then If They Were Wild?

1:15:25 - What Happens During Processing?

1:16:35 - The Natural Circle Of Life

1:19:30 - Food Labeling

1:22:45 - The Role Of Large Industry In Agriculture

1:25:20 - Shopping Local

1:26:30 - Agricultural Subsidies

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1:31:30 - The Inedible Offal

1:33:15 - The Carbon Problem And Greenhouse Gases

1:37:30 - Reversing Climate Change

1:39:30 - Impossible Meat

1:41:00 - Evan And Janna's Businesses

1:44:15 - The Mental Health And Wellness Of The Ranchers

1:46:40 - What Evan And Janna's Cows Eat

1:47:15 - Wagyu Beef

1:48:45 - Ground Beef

1:50:15 - Beef Heart

1:50:30 - Organ Jerky

1:53:10 - Oxtail

1:55:30 - Why Don't We Crave Organ Meats?

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Ground beef is actually a very nutrient that's source of meat, especially if it's like the grass of girls. Finish liver has basically every nutrient environment that you need. All the things that we know lead to that soil health is eroding at such a fast pace that we can't quantify how much time is left. We oftentimes think that technology is the savior. Man's ego. To think that we have the answers to what mother nature did so well for so many eons is just the ultimate testament to house sometimes batshit crazy. We can be Welcome to the Melanie Avalon Biohacking Podcast, where we meet the world's top experience to explore the secrets of health, mindset, longevity, and so much more. Are you ready to take charge of your existence and bio hack your life? This show is freely Please keep in mind we're not dispensing medical advice and are not responsible for any outcomes you may experience from implementing the tactics mind hearing. Are you ready, Let's do this? Welcome back to the Melanie Avalon Biohacking podcast. Omeganness Friends, You're going to absolutely love this episode. Today with Jana Breslin and Evan DeMarco. I can't even describe how much I enjoyed the conversation. I am so passionate about regenerative agriculture, the actual implications of our farming systems today and what that means for not only our health but the planet. And we dived deep, deep, deep into so many things, and it's really something that I think can be so confusing because you hear arguments on all sides and it's really hard to know just what to trust and what to think. And I think you guys will find today's conversation so enlightening. We go into so many topics, the role of people in the food system, how to actually regenerate the soil, the ethics of eating animals, whether or not humans are actually omnivores, what labels actually mean, whether or not you should support local, the implications of impossible and beyond Burger, and so much more. I cannot wait to hear what you guys think. I am so thrilled because Evan and Jannah have an incredible, incredible offer for my audience, So you can actually get forty percent off your first box and ground by for life. Yes, that is off your first box and ground by for life. Just use the cupon code Melanie Avalon at Regenerative Pastures dot com. That's the cupon code Melanie Avalon at Regenerative Pastures dot com. These show notes for today's episode will be at Melanie Avalon dot com slash Regenerative Pastures. The show notes will have a full transcript, so definitely check that out. There will be two episode giveaways for this episode. One will be in my Facebook group I have bio Hackers, Intermittent fasting plus real foods plus life comments something you learned or something that resonated with you on the pent post to enter to win something that I love. And then check out my Instagram find the Friday announcement posts there and again comment to enter to win something that I love. If you are enjoying the show, it would mean the absolute world World War Old and it is the most best way to support the show. If you ever have a moment to subscribe and or write a brief review and Apple podcast, it helps so much more than most people realize, So thank you so much in advance for that. Friends, do you need holiday gifts? I got you covered. Get all my email list at Melanie Avalon dot com. Slash email list. I will be sending my holiday gift guide. You do not want to miss this. It will have all the awesome things to get people, the bio hacking gifts, the things that I am getting from my friends and family, and all the discounts you want as well. Again, that is Melanie Avalon dot com slash email list. Thrilling, thrilling announcement. Friends, my burberine is almost here. I am so excited. Burberye is something that I was already taking every single day of my life for its incredible effects on regulating blood sugar, but it has so many more benefits beyond that. I've been diving deep into the research so that I can really be educated on the supplement that I'm creating, and it is overwhelming the beneficial effects that it can have. So for starters, it has been shown in clinical trials to rival met Foreman in its ability to lower blood sugar, insulin, and h p A one C, and it probably does that through quite a few different mechanisms. So it can impede digestion of carbs in the gut so that you don't actually absorb the glucose in the first place, and then in the liver. It can directly affect the liver to make the liver produce less glucose because, as it turns out, high blood sugar levels, the majority of that is actually coming from the liver, not necessarily from what we just ate. There are also a lot of studies looking at the effects of burberine on the gut microbiome, and a lot of researchers hypothesized that actually the effects on the microbiome are one of the reasons it helps with metabolic health and blood sugar, which I find so fascinating. So it's been shown to increase the levels of quote good bacteria and decreased levels of quote bad bacteria. Specifically, can support bacteria that creates short, tame fatty acids like butterrate. But rate is amazing to support the gut lining and also to support metabol account. Two things we often talk about is incredible benefits of intermittent fasting is the upregulation of a m...

...p K as well as autophagy. A m p K is a cellular energy sensing pathway in the body, and when it is upregulated, it is linked to a myriad of health benefits, and autophagy is the process where our bodies actually break down old, broken proteins in the body. It's sort of like a cleanse on the cellular level. It's something you definitely want to upregulate. And guess what, Burbery has been shown to increase both a mp K and autophagy. How cool is that all of that together makes sense that berberine has been proposed to be a supplement great for longevity. It also has anti inflammatory benefits, antioxident benefits. It may support fertility, It can support a healthy gut. It can support a healthy fat composition, specifically reducing the levels of inflammatory visceral fat in our bodies. It may reduce cholesterol. It may even have anti cancer effects. Basically, burbery is an amazing supplement and I'm thrilled that it is almost here. I wanted to make the best burberine on the market, and I can guarantee you a lawn X bourberine is that we searched high and low to find the highest quality bourberinge that tested to beep your end potent, and this is it. It comes with no problematic fillers and in a glass bottle. To help prevent leaching of plastics into ourselves and the environment. We tested multiple times for purity and potency and to be free of heavy metals and mold. You know how important that is to me. And it is almost here. So it is launching midnight on Friday December, so yes, that would be the day of December sixte if you cannot stay until midnight the night before and we have an amazing launched special, you don't want to miss this. You can get off one bottle or off two or more bottles. This is just for the launch special and wild supplies last, so do not miss this launch. I cannot wait. That will be available at avalon x dot us in the meantime and after as well. You can you see cupon code Melanie avalon to get ten percent off site wide at avalon x dot us so you can stock up on my magnesium and my Sara pepts. That cupon code will also get you timperson off at my fantastic partner Empty Logic Hell. And lastly, you can get a twenty off code when you subscribe for text updates. For that, just text avalon x to eight seven seven eight six one eight three one eight. That's Avalon x to eight seven seven eight six one eight three one eight and you can get updates on my email list at avalon x dot us slash email list. Another resource for you, guys, it is the holidays. There is a lot of food happening. Do you react to food like I do? If so, you've got to get my app food Since Guide. It's a comprehensive catalog of over three hundred foods for eleven potentially problematic compounds. These include things you may be reacting to like gluten, lectins, solicillates, soul fights, thy alls, whether or not something is a night shade, and so much more. This is the tool you need to take charge of your food sensitivities. It is a top iTunes app. You can learn about the compounds, create your list, to share in print, and so much more. You can get it at Melanie Avalon dot com slash food Since. And one more thing before we jump in. One of the reasons I am so passionate about originative agriculture is because of the profound effect that it has on our environment. The conventional agriculture system is toxic to our environment. It is so sad, and when you think about it, these antibiotics and toxins that go into conventional livestock, causes them to grow, makes them sick, and there's sort of an analogy there to what we are putting in our own bodies. Did you know that one of our largest sources of exposure to toxins each and every day is actually our skincare and makeup, and these compounds actually built up in our bodies. 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...making clean Beauty and Safe skincare a part of your future like I have, I definitely recommend becoming a banded Beauty member. Sort of like the Amazon Prime for clean beauty. You get timbercent back in product credit, free shipping on qualifying orders, and a welcome gift that it's worth way more than the price of the year long membership. It's totally completely worth it. And I'll put all this information in the show notes. All right, without further ado, please enjoy this wonderful conversation with Jana and Evan of her generative pastors. Hi, friends, welcome back to the show. I am so incredibly excited about the conversation that I am about to have. It is about a topic I am personally obsessed with, very passionate about, and a topic that I've talked a lot about on this show, and a topic that I think is well, very debated and just very confusing. And it's all sort of like a few topics. So that is the role of meat and our diet and our health versus like an entirely plant based diet, as well as the role of sustainable agriculture. What does that actually practically look like? What is sustainable agriculture? How does meet affect the environment? How does it affect our health? How does it affect the planet? So many things, and I will just say that because I do a lot of interviews on this podcast and a lot of different perspectives and opinions on and I personally myself even get really confused when it comes to all of this. I mean just even sitting down and like looking at the scientific studies and data and points and everything, it seems like all sides can make all of their cases. So I was super thrilled when two incredible human beings reached out to me, that is Janet Breslin and Evan DeMarco. They have a farm called Regenerative Pastures, and so they have their own farm and they also work with farmers to create a direct to consumer, subscription based regittative process that we will talk all about in this show today. So they reached out, I was obviously super down and well I was just talking to them a little bit before this and then just in the initial pitch that I got there very spirited and have a lot of opinions, and so I am just really really looking forward to this conversation. So Jan and Evan, thank you so much for being here. Thanks Melanie, Yeah, thanks Malanie, thanks for having us. So to start things off, I've been wondering this. Ever, since you guys reached out, I am dying to know your backstory. I mean, because it takes a lot, I think to do what you're doing start a farm. So were you always into regor agriculture? When did that start? How did you guys meet? I just want to know. I know there's a lot going on. Yeah. So Evan and I met a couple of years ago. We've both been in the health and wellness space for many, many years. I've had a social media following and have done many things with like fitness magazines and you know, bodybuilding shows and a lot of like you know, health and wellness categories. And so for me, I actually had some health issues that really inspired me to really dive deep into how I can optimize my body. And it really started after I got a cancer diagnosis and my body just seemed like it was betraying me, failing me. And I was like, Okay, I'm committing everything, all of my time, all of my effort to find out what I can do to optimize my health. This comes down to nutrition, our movement, our mindset, our lifestyle, so many things like that. So Avid and I met, and we obviously had just a ton of synergy and it really has kind of evolved. But no, neither of us really have any experience in the regenerative space or like I mean not experience, but we did not grow up on ranches and farms. This is not something that it's in our backstory. So this has been definitely a very kind of like inspiring journey that very much. We basically just found that it was so important for us to focus on our food and how we're interacting with our environment. Yeah, and I think to elaborate on that, Jenna and I began Complete Human, which is a digital content platform and dietary supplement business, about three years ago, and part of that was this recognition that we needed to continually optimize the human condition. We you know, a lot of people talk about bio hacking. We say bio optimized because I just don't like the term hacking. It's never a good thing. But in that we're always talking about supplements. Where I was talking about working out, we're talking about mindset. But we've always, i think, as an industry, really shied away from talking about how important our food is in this whole health and wellness journey. And so along the way in this digital content place. One of our friends called us up and he's like, hey, would you guys like to do a documentary on regenerative agriculture? In our first response is what the hell is regenerative agriculture? So he sends over this whole data dump of stuff and that was like Alan Savory's Ted Talk, really kind of getting into like the kiss the Ground movement, looking at all of the different scientific research that has evolved in the space of regenerative agriculture. And so after just geeking out on it for you know, like a week, we called him back and we said, hey, we don't want to just do a documentary and this, we actually want to get really involved. We recognize how powerful regenerative agriculture is in really changing the...

...entire trajectory of the planet. So his response was, well, do you want to buy a U s D a processing facility? And we're like, sure, why not? And so we did that in Cody, Wyoming. And you know, the joke is is we've wanted to kick him in the nuts every day since then, because buying a processing plant is a it's a labor of love. It's not economically viable and and this is really one of the things that we're going to talk about in this podcast is how much we've marginalized the people in this country who produce our food. And that's from you know, the people who process our animals, the people who grow our vegetables and our fruits, and so in this we've really started to understand the whole model, the entire value chain of our food supply and how broken it is. I and that led us, of course to recognizing that by optimizing that by owning the processing facility, by owning the ranches, by working directly with the farmers, and cutting out all of these middlemen, the brokers, the the auction houses, you know, the people in New York who are trading cows as a commodity, who have probably never even seen alive cow. We can now start to really have a significant impact and how we eat as a country, how we take care of the people who manufacture our food, and then how we start to look at the food the way that we once did, which is with a little more reverence than we do. And I think again, as this podcast unfold, one of the things that we're going to really hammer home is how disconnected we are from our food supply and how through the process of regenerative agriculture, we can develop that connection. We can reconnect with our food supply and understand how important it is to the health of ourselves as individuals and the health of the planet. Well, first of all, Janet, how did everything go with your cancer diagnosis? It went good? I mean literally ever since. I just dove into how I can help myself and always you know, and I'm sure you understand this as well, but it's not just the nutrition and the workouts, right, It's it's our mindset, it's it's our lifestyle, it's our relationships and you know, our relationships with ourselves. And I think that especially when we're when we're bombarded with our toxic environment, there's a lot of things that we need to do to help heal ourselves. And I think when you support the body as a whole, everything starts working, you know a lot better. So ever since then, things have been much better for me. Thank you for asking. Awesome, No, that's amazing. It's so interesting. Do you guys know farmer Lee Jones? Yes, yes, not not personally, but you guys should meet him because he's like the most passionate, inspiring person, Like he's the person you talked to him, and you're just like smiling. But I was just thinking about that interview because when he came on, I don't remember what he said at the beginning, but the first question I asked him was what you were saying was sparking in my head. So I'm going to ask it again. It's a societal question because you're talking all about the role of all of these people and processes that are involved in our food system and how you know, we just don't we don't see any of that. So, like America, this is kind of a big question, like America and progress and society, because there's this movement now with what you guys are doing a lot of similar farms to sort of return us more to a state that's different than we are today with conventional agriculture and how things are done. But could it have happened any other way? Like so what we're trying to get to today, could that always have been the way it was? Or do you think we had to go through the system we went through to like progress as society. Oh, that's a great question. You know, let's take a let's kind of take a step back in time and we recognize that, you know, harmony are this harmonious relationship that humans always had with the planet was how we evolved. And it wasn't really until you know, we could say the invention of the plow was kind of the beginning of that shall we say, downward spiral, but really the Industrial Revolution, right like, we we sent people off to the Midwest to these farms to live in these smaller communities, to grow their own food, to work in harmony with the land. And it was in until the Industrial Revolution where we started to pull people back to the cities and we recognize that in these major metropolitan areas, you know, in New York, at Philadelphia, Chicago, that we had to feed massive amounts of people. The only way to do that was through kind of this massive industrial you know, agricultural complex, and in that the downward spiral really escalated. So the question is could we have gotten to this place if it wasn't through the tumultuous last hundred and fifty to two hundred years of really this industrial growth. I think the answer is probably no. I think we had to understand our impact in the world as a technologically evolving society. For us to recognize that we have to almost go back to those pre industrial practices to re engage in that harmonious relationship with the environment. However, and this is something that I think I get very passionate about, is we oftentimes think that technology is the savior, when in fact, I think it's going to be the downfall. We can absolutely value technology and certain types of technology in our quest...

...to create a better world. But if we think it's going to save us, and that's in the form of what's just a lab grown meat or you know, any of the other things that really are trying to take the place of that holistic relationship with the world, we're gonna just we're gonna screw it all up even worse, and you know, then we're just basically going to run ourselves into extinction. You mentioned this. I mentioned this When people hear regenerative agriculture. It's so funny because I think now, like I'm so familiar with the term. I like say it all the time. I say it casually, and I assume that people know what it is. But I was talking to some friends yesterday telling them that I was having this interview today, and they were like, what's regenerative agriculture, and I was like, oh, like, so can we can we put in place some some definitions about like what does this even look like? Great question? And and that kind of is the unfortunate part about regenerative agriculture in this movement is there's not this singular definition of what it is. You know, you think of organic and that has a very concrete, if not government oversight type of definition. Regenerative in our opinion, and I also ours, but you know, Janda, please feel free to jump in. Here is this return to how the world is supposed to work, how nature is supposed to work, and that is the synergistic blend of animal, man and plant in harmony with the environment. And the best way to look at regenerative is from the basis of a ruminant animal. Cows, bison, whatever are packed together in these tight formations as a defense mechanism against predators, and they eat grass, they pee, they poop, they do their thing, and then they move quickly throughout the land so as to not deplete the land of that entire supply of grass, but just to kind of move on as nomadic animals did. And what happens when they do that is is that excrement that you know, all of that stuff, their hoof tracks, their hoof movements in the ground actually creates a whole ecosystem, better soil, better water infiltration. The roots of that grass actually reached deeper, which then sequesters more carbon, so this whole and then that grass grows, and then the animals come back at a certain point, and then you have this whole cycle of life. But what has happened since the industrial revolution is we take these cows and we put them in feed lots, tens of thousands of cows, and they completely devastate the land. So that cow or that small group of cows pooping and peeing in small amounts and then moving on is very healthy. Lots of cows pooping and peeing in the same spot for year after year is completely toxic. And so the regenerative movement really is this recognition that if we live in harmony with the land, we do exactly what animals and humans and plants and animals did a thousand years ago, two thousand years ago. That's the model. And if we kind of stick with where we're at right now, which is putting putting a bunch of animals in and a pen and hoping that the world is going to get better. Well, that's just foolhearted when you say being like how far were they moving, Like how much terrain were they covering? You know, enough that based you know, to think of this way if you had a giant herd of bison, right, and we use bison as kind of this, you know, regenerative icon is you know, they would go maybe a mile a day, not a lot. You know, it's not like they're traversing hundreds of miles a day. It's just enough that there they instinctually knew that if they stayed in one spot, they were going to desecrate their food supply. They also recognized that by moving, that momentum of the herd was a natural defense against predators. So just that continual movement of a herd is what did that. And it could be a mile, it could be five miles, but it was really just that consistent understanding of that or that natural understanding of that animal or that herd of animals to move through the land not completely destroy the food supply, but just keep chasing the grass. The ground needs to rest to like the grass needs that time to replenish and grow and like have stronger routes. So if these animals are confined in one area there eating it literally to the bottom and it's it is kind of just drawing the grass. So the fact that they can move it gives the grass and the plants more time to grow and nurture the soil better, and that just helps our environment. So actually moving these animals and not keeping them confined is the probably one of the biggest parts to regenerative and helping our and and so now now that we've started to understand how these animals lived in harmony with the land a thousand years ago or even two hundred years ago, we can, in a technological way, or at least a kind of cattle way, start to re implement some of those processes. It's called holistic management. Management is those cows, those bis and whatever, they're just moved every eighteen hours. So rather than using wolves or you know, Native Americans with spears and bows, we actually just use cowboys to simulate that kind of natural predator defense. We move them through and then that land starts to regenerate. And what we see from that is, you know, again, soil health is everything, and as goes the...

...soil so does our planet, and we're starting to see that in the Midwest. We're starting to see that in these areas that are mono cropped with high levels of pesticides and herbicides and fungisides, the soil is dead. And we think that tilling the soil is actually helping, but it's making it even worse. Whereas if we utilize the excrement of these animals, we utilize their natural eating methods where they eat the grass down a little bit and then the root system goes deeper and deeper and deeper, making that root system stronger, sequestering more carbon which then feeds the grass to grow. We have what basically the planet is designed to do, and that's to regenerate itself. So on the land piece, one of the things that the plant based people who often say is that there's not enough land or that animals require too much land to be sustainable. So what is the role of actual land. I'm not sure how opinionated I can be with my four letter words. Anything goes, you know, I think it's apropos for the conversation, but it's total bullshit. Now. One of the reasons for that is actually the way that the government has kind of stipulated more through policy and policy that has been influenced by, shall we say, a contingent of the population that disagrees with eating meat, that there's only a certain number of animals that can be on the land at a time. And that's a U M S. And that's a designation that you know, only a certain number can be there. And what we found is that when we step outside of those natural or not natural when we step outside of those kind of government mandated policies and we add more animals to the land, we have better regeneration. So the truth is is that the more animals on the land, the better off we're going to be. And let's look back to the bison days before the settlers kind of came in and really destroyed the bison and probably what could be considered one of the most horrific things that humanity has ever done. You know, just think of the thriving grasslands in the Midwest, and that was all a result of these millions and millions of bison who just called that home. And now when we say that on acres you can have like forty pairs of cows, we wonder why we're screwing with things like you know, man's foolishness and ego. To think that we have the answers to what mother nature did so well for so many eons long before we showed up is just the ultimate testament to how sometimes batshit crazy we can be. And more importantly, when we allow policy that is dictated by a certain contingent of the population, predominantly vegans, to dictate that we don't have any real clear science outside of what we know, independent of the government organizations, to say that this actually has a positive impact. So the research studies that says when we increase her density, when we increase a u M s, we actually see better carbon sequestration, we see reversals of desertification, we see better water infiltration, better microbial growth in the soil. All of that is the essential component for us to fix a lot of the climate problems that we as a species have created. And this is where all the confusion comes in, because you know, everything that you just said is like the antithesis of what another side might say. I think it's just really confusing to people. So that a u M number, what was that based on? How did the government come up with that? I don't know, darts at a dartboard. You know, who knows? I guess, like, what is the purpose of it? The purpose was actually to mitigate the number of animals on the land because there was this propensity to put them into confined areas. And then in that, you know, in those confined areas, we saw the degradation of the land based off of what we now know happens. Right, and again, it's like, if they're all pooping and peeing in one acre of land and it destroys the land, well, then yeah, we have a viable argument to say, well, these are detrimental to the environment. But when we remove those fences and we allow them to just roam freely, well then all of a sudden we start to see this regeneration. So the a u M s have really just been kind of this government oversight that's not based on anything hardcore science or data driven. It's more just based off of theoretical practices without really kind of comparing and contrasting to control groups and saying, well, what happens here if we increase the number of animals versus over here where we decrease it. And when we see that in like in practicality in practice in the wild. We know that the greater the herd density, the better the environment, the better the soil, the better the grass. And so now I think the Bureau of Land Management is starting to come around to some of these practices. We're starting to see that when we do these practices, when we increase the number of animals and we treat them like they were treated, you know, ten thousand years ago, we have a much better environment than the environment that we are trying to manufacture through policy. So what happened with the bison, so in an effort to really it was a war against the American Indians or the Native Americans, and so we went in and you know, the the arm me at the time was charged with slaughtering...

...millions and millions of the native of the Native bison. And what that did was that forced the Native Americans into into kind of agreement with the with the American settlers, and then from that point on, we pushed them into their you know, into their tribal lands. But yeah, one of the greatest tragedies in global history is what the American settlers did to the bison. And we hunted, we hunted them almost to extinction. But there are pictures of their pictures of just mountains of bison bones and it's just the American Army at the time was charged with killing as many as they could. Oh my goodness, that is really haunting. Okay, you mentioned the role of the soil and how it is affected by these animals. So there's this there's like this fact that's floating around out there. But then I've heard that it's not based on reality, so I don't even know what the actual fact is. But they say like, we're losing our top soil and an X amount of years it's going to be gone, or so, what is the state of the top soil right now? It's it's a damn Greek tragedy. Now. In two thousand and fifteen, the World Health Organization in conjunction with the United Nations proposed through some reports said that there was about sixty harvests left on planet Earth that has That was later debunked, but what it basically said is is that we're eroding top soil to the point that there's really only sixty viable harvest left on the left on the planet at that point, since we would no longer be able to sustain agriculture, it would be considered an extinction level event for the planet. That has been debunked. But as we look at the science, and especially here in the United States where we have the largest prevalence of use of herbicides, fungicides and tilling, those numbers are not outside of the realm of possibility, you know, and I've heard some science say like a hundred to a hundred and twenty years at the current pace. What we do know is is that you know, the microbial quality of the soil, the basically everything that is soil health, water infiltration, carbon sequestration, all the things that we know lead to that soil health is eroting at such a fast pace that we can't quantify how much time is left at the current pace. But what we do know is is that what we're doing through mono cropping, through the application of pesticides and herbicides, that we are creating a soil that will be completely unsustainable in realistically the next two generations. And so, going back to what you're talking about earlier about technology and the role of technology and all of this, I can just see some brainstorming people on the you know, the plant based side of things proposing that there might be a way of technology to regenerate the soil, like, is that at all a possibility or can it really only happen organically or naturally. I don't know of any technological means that's been proposed that would allow for the soil to regenerate other than the application of ruminant animals and going back to the way that it once was, and that that fortunately is not in line with you know, the typical plant based ideology. But here's the question, right, these animals existed long before humans showed up, and if we play our cards right, these animals will exist in concert with humans for generations to come. But my question to that, to that plant based population is what are we supposed to do with these animals? If they are not for the harmonious and oftentimes you know, circle of life kind of component of of our part here on this planet, then what do we do with them? And I have never been able to get a good answer from shall we say, the plant based population. But to answer your question on the technology, I do not know of any technological intervention that would allow us to do what naturally we can do with just allowing cows and bison and other roominate animals to do what they do best, which is to live in concert with the planet. I'm thinking more like growing plants in greenhouses and providing I don't know, just inserting nutrients, just like recreating the environment ourselves. We can and and here's here's where it gets kind of funky, right Like now, I'm a big believer that kind of the hydroponic or the plant based vertical gardening is going to have to be an essential component of our diet as populations continue to spiral out of control. You know, we're a close to eight billion some people. You know, some of the reports suggest that we could be at ten to twelve billion in the next you know, ten to fifteen years. Those are staggering numbers. So theoretically, and especially with what we're doing to the environment, you know, some of these vertical gardens, some of these kind of concepts are going to be essential for us. Now. I actually like them for a couple of different reasons. Growing your own food is one of those things that allows us to reconnect with our food supply. One of the great stories was COVID happened, right and we had no clue what was going on. So it's like, is this the end of the world? Is this a zombie apocalypse? So what's going...

...on? So me trying to at least be somewhat prepared, I go to home depot and I buy all of like these plants, seeds and all of these like, you know, basically how to grow food at home. That was almost three years ago, and I have yet to produce a single edible thing. What it taught me was again how disconnected we are from our food supply. Food waste in the United States isn't atrocious. What is it? Eight billion tons of food a year? Eighty billion tons of food a year. I guarantee that when you grow your own food, you waste a lot less. So as we start to look at some of these solutions, these microsolutions for food scarcity, for domestic food security, some of these things are a great opportunity for people to get more connected with their their food supply, waste less and be a little bit more health conscious by making sure that they're growing organic fruits vegetables at home. So I think that there's absolutely a place for this, that technology should not be relied upon as the single source of shall we say, plant Bay East ideology for ensuring that we can feed eight billion people. And if you do the back of the envelope math, if the entire eight billion people on planet Earth were to switch to a plant based lifestyle, we would eradicate the soil in less than a decade. So think of it this way. If eight billion people switched to vegan vegan diet today, the planet would be in inhabitable in ten years. Friends, I'm about to tell you how you can get off a product that has truly changed my life. Do you experience stress or anxiety or chronic pain? Do you have trouble sleeping at least once a week? If you do, trust me, you are not alone. I personally have explored so many avenues for how to have a healthy relationship with stress and finding the world of cebdy oil has been absolutely incredible for that. 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What they haven't been able to reconcile is the nutritional deficiencies of a hydroponic, plant based lifestyle with what the physical demands are going to be of working in a place like that, And so muscle protein synthesis, muscle protein breakdown seems to be one of the most common occurrences that happens as we start to evolve into a plant based lifestyle where the lack of animal protein becomes a real hindrance to a mission a long term thriving environment on a foreign planet. Well, it's kind of like that really famous bios year study. But I don't know what was...

...that like in the eighties or the nineties when they had people live in this biodome, but yeah, like a self sustainable and they had to grow their own food. They were in there for a long time. It really ended up being I really could look at calorie restriction the health effects of that, because they ended up like fairy calorie restricted they did, and I think they had to pull the plug earlier. It actually ended up being an epnic failure. And I know, like one of the main guys actually died prematurely and they think it might have been due to the effects of that. But so interesting about the pandemic and growing your own stuff and all of that. So I have a lot of errow garden units and I grow, like I'm looking at it right now. I grow cucumbers and chives and cilantro I had never grown anything, not extensively, at least not like actual like things I could eat before, and an interesting experience I had doing that. A I recommend everybody do it, not necessarily to fee eat yourself, although that could be a good reason, but more just what you were mentioning, like having this experience of connecting yourself to your food and what it's like to grow something something really interesting about it. And this ties into we haven't talked about this yet, but I guess the ethics surrounding eating animals and all of that. When I finally grew my own cucumbers. I realized these plants feel very alive to me, and I don't want to say they're sentient, but they feel very much alive. It made me ponder because there's a lot of arguments from the vegan side about the ethics and morality of eating animals, eating sentient beings, But to me, it seems like everything is alive and maybe we should look at the natural, you know, circle of life like lion king style. What are your thoughts on those arguments that are presented about, you know, the morality and ethics of eating animals that were sentient. I think it comes back to for something to live, something has to die, and that is the circle of life. That is the way that this planet is based. And whether that's from the lonely fungus to the worm to the larger animal, for something to live, something has to die. And when we ignore that, and when we think that we exist outside of that, that is the greatest acme of foolishness in all of human history. And that is what I challenge the vegans to recognize, is that how do you exist outside of the food supply? How do you exist outside of the food chain? And just because we evolved as perhaps arguably the dominant species on this planet, does not give us the right, through some small simple twist of evolution to you know, to think that we can exist outside of that. And what happened in this weird kind of evolution of man is is that we forgot that being connected to our food supply, can you know, being connected to the animals that nourish us more so than the plants, because you know, if we go mono crop anything or monocrop land, we kill a lot more in that acre of monocrop land that ever will happen when we kill a larger animal. But when we start to exhibit gratitude and connection to our food supply, whether that's you know, a blueberry or a cow, then we're reconnected into this, you know, into this life cycle and we kind of start to shed The ego that I I really believe a lot of vegans have is is that they think that they can exist outside of the food supply, and you just simply can't. In doing so, you create exponentially more harm then to acknowledge what it means to be part of that holistic environment. One thing that I think is very interesting too is that children these days as well, I've noticed that there are a lot of school programs that are integrating more farm day trips. They bring kids to farms and get them more connected, and I think that is something that's that we are missing in in today's world. Me personally, I am very spiritually connected to animals. I love animals so much, and so when people do here that we own a processing facility where we do kill animals, it can be very conflicting, right, Like, how can you say you love animals when you do this for a living or for work? Right? I I have a story where you know, I went to the first time that I went to a processing to our processing facility. It is different, right, if it's not something that you grew up with where you are in a ranching family, or you're on the farm, or you work with animals, or like you eat the animals that are on your land. It's very different when you come from like a city and you're not used to like seeing, you know, what the actual process is like. So for me coming into that type of environment for the first time when we started this business, it was very shocking to me. But afterwards I have never felt more connected or have had more reverence for animals, but more then so,...

...like even even just acknowledging the process of what we do to nourish ourselves with the animal protein that we eat, it actually has enhanced my love and appreciation for animals more than I thought that I could have. And so I do appreciate that there are programs where, especially with the children, you know, like we are integrating more of this get back to your roots, get your hands in the soil, like be with animals, and get outside. I think that will be a very amazing step forward to us getting more connected with our with our world, especially starting it, you know, at such a young age for children. Do you get a lot of backlash or do you get like threats or anything like that? Oh yeah, regularly, Yeah, yeah absolutely. I mean, you know, like with my following on social media as well. I mean I'm sure you know, it's just like the social media world is very opinionated, and people are you know, hiding behind keyboards and stuff like that, and so they you know, so you pair that with you know, the very opinionated movements between you know, eating animal based versus you know vegan or you know, plant based. Yeah, they definitely come out and we have definitely go on some verry and very aggressive, you know, insults, And I make no mistake about it that I if you look at my social media, I like to poke the vegan bears, I like to say, and and I hate that it's become so polarizing in the fact that we can't have academic, intellectual debates. But when an ideology is based off of a a belief system and not science, it's kind of like religion, right, how do you change people's minds? But the interesting thing that we've found, and I don't know if you've seen this, is the number of vegan you know, X of vegans who have said, you know what, I changed to a vegan diet for health, and then it worked for a little bit, but then I was so unhealthy afterwards that I had to reintroduce animal protein. And you know, I work with a lot of doctors. I think a lot of people who have who have been great guests on your show say the same thing. It's that the vegans are actually their most unhealthy patients. So it's really balancing the ideological kind of that that ego that says I can exist outside of the food supply with the real health and needs of incorporating animal protein into a diet, and we just haven't been able to reconcile those two, especially in social media where people, as Jenna said, like to hide behind their keyboards. It's shocking what what people will say. It's like if you saw them in real life. I mean, most people would not go up to you and say that in real life. It's a really sad state of affairs. And the protein piece, I just think is well, there's a lot of confusion surrounding that as well, and I think people make it very generalized and basic. So people will say, oh, you can get you know, enough protein easily from plants, that it's not difficult to do, but it doesn't take into account the fact that I think a lot of what we've based on is like ruminants, where they have the ability to turn plants into protein more so than we can. Like I was listening to an interview about this recently and they were talking about like the gut my car biomin cows for example, and how they like literally they can create amino acids from that that we just can't. So any studies based on looking at you know, animals that eat grass and the protein that they you know, make from that like vegetarian animals. It's just not not the same thing for us. So do you think it's possible for like any vegans to get enough protein? Like, do you think there are some outliers or across the board? Is it an issue? You know, I think there's always going to be outliers, and you know, obviously, if something's working for you, great, right, Like, but I think that we can't look at the microcosm of a short amount of time in a vegan diet as the answer to everything. And what we've found is that people who have had health benefits on a vegan diet are usually coming from the standard American diet where they're so full of like seed oils and hy omega sixes and you know, potato chips and sugars, and it's like, well, yeah, if you eat anything natural after that, you're going to be healthy. But sarco penia or muscle protein breaked out, especially as we age, is a very very real thing. And and and kind of that jump off the cliff moment is when we can no longer synthesize you know, muscle protein or amino acids for that muscle protein and we start to have that real kind of cataclysmic breakdown. I have seen in most of the literature, actually in all of the literature that muscle protein breakdown or sarcopenia is exacerbated by a vegan diet. So we know that with clean protein, animal protein, we can actually live a longer, healthier existence. The challenges is the you know, the kind of the argument is is that well, red meat is so bad for you. But most of the time that was paired with that standard American diet of seed oils, of high omega six is of things that really said that really didn't look at protein from an animal in isolation as its health benefits without combining it with all the things that we now know are so toxic to a human being. Yeah, no, I cannot agree more. And like the healthy n I...

...s I think is just so rampant. So you know, basically the fact that a lot of people that are eating red meat, like you just said, it tends to be a certain type of person just if you're looking at the whole entire general population that is more in line with a more standard diet compared to people who aren't who are likely following a lot of other healthy practices as well. I think it's just pretty blinding. Like I know that they've done interesting studies where they control for that by doing it with populations that shop at like whole foods or something, and then I'd have to find the exact study, but basically the differences go away. Like when you select for people who are like purposely following a healthy diet, it's harder to make those connections with like red meat specifically and health issues. Speaking of nutrition in all of this stuff, how do you feel about the nutritional profile differences and benefits between conventionally raised meat versus sustainable, regenerative We probably needed to fine organic. I've had Rob Wolf on this show multiple times, and he wrote a beautiful book called Sacred Cow, which I really really recommend that everybody read. He actually makes the case in that book surprisingly that regeneratively raised and sustainable and grass fed grass finish beef actually isn't that much more nutritionally better than conventionally raised What are your thoughts on that? Yeah, and and and obviously he and Diane I think, have done a lot of research on this one, and it's hard to ignore kind of the you know, the commitment and really the opportunity that they've given the regenerative movement to capture a foothold foothold in the marketplace. So we absolutely love what they've done and applaud that. Now, I want to take a step back in time and look at what happened in the nineties sixties when Dr Jorn dyer Berg went to Greenland to study the Inuit population to determine why they, as a as a subset of a population without access to fresh fruits, fruits and vegetables, had such such a lower incident of cardiovascular disease than almost any the subset of the population. So, after his time there and taking all these blood samples and in the study, he comes back and he publishes his findings, and what he found is that the predominant dietary staple was like whale meat or seal, which was really high in Omega three and really low in omega six. And so that was really the beginning of this whole omega three movement. And at the time, there wasn't really a viable commercial source of like whale or seal oil to to kind of create that. So that's where the world turned to fish oil and we saw the real giant explosion of the fish oil boom, especially on the E p A side, which we now know as kind of essential for some cardiovascular health. Well, basically what we found is is that the omega six to omega three ratio was the driving force in those inflammatory components that allowed the Innuit population to not have the cardiovascular disease that especially Americans had. So, if we think about the omega six to omega three ratio from an anthropological perspective, about a hundred and fifty years ago, most people on the planet had about a four to one six to three ratio, which modern science says that's pretty optimal for balancing inflammation resolution. Now, it wasn't until we started to get into the seed oils, especially like you know, the corn and all of that, that those numbers went from a four to one to a staggering sometimes twenty five to one. Here in the United States, that level of omega six is so pro inflammatory and oftentimes is blamed on red meat, when in fact it's mostly the seed oils, the corn, the grain. So then theoretically and through science, what happens is if we're pumping all of these cows full of that same corn, that same grain that has such a high level of omega six, that roumined animal is not capable at that level of kind of separating out those omega components, and so when we eat that animal, we are getting more omega six than we would from a traditional regenda or from a more regenerative or holistically managed and moment. And so well, Rob's research is correct in a lot of ways. What I found is looking at the you know omega quand testing the omega six to omega three ratios of regenerative cows versus you know, conventional cows that are fed that grain diet. We can see that there is a significant health benefit from a regenerative cow simply in the lower omega six ratio. And when we kind of extrapolate that to a better diet, we can see that lowering that omega six has a profound health benefit for everybody. And now we have more optimal ratios, we have better inflammation resolution, we just have lower inflammatory markers, and if inflammation is really the root cause of all disease, anything that we can do to keep that down is completely beneficial. So I'm so glad you said that because he talked about that in the book, and I actually have my notes from the book that he wrote about with that, because he was saying, I hope this is the right numbers. I've written down from that book that like conventional, the omega six to omega three is an average of six ex seven to three twenty compared to fourteen to...

...twenty for grass fed grass finished. And what I thought was interesting was it's been a while since I read it, but I think in that section he was saying, well, you know that the omega three omega six is aren't a large portion of the fat anyway, so it's like not that big of a deal because it's more like you know, the mono and saturated fats in the meat, and that you could get your maga threes from salmon. But the way I see it is, I don't think we need massive amounts of these omega's in our diet, but it's the ratio that's so important. And so if the foundation of the meat, even if it's not your main source of omega three, is if the foundation of it is so skewed in that direction with the omega sixes, and that's like the foundation of your diet. I I think that that could have as far as like setting up the inflammatory profile of your body. I could see how it would have really big implications. So I'm glad you said all of that, absolutely, and I couldn't agree with you more melon. I think that's something that we have to consider and really, looking at what we've done to our oceans, it's unfair of us to now be dependent on fish, fish oil, those type of omega three's to counter what we've done by feeding our cows massive amounts of omega six when we can just solve the problem by turning all of these cows loose on open fields, on open pastures, on the grass, which allows us to regenerate the land, to reverse climate change, to reverse to certification, to improve the soil, all the things that we know we need. So this simple solutions are so elegant, yet so profound in their ability to undo all of the damage that we, as a species of cause. It's like, why do we even need to think about fish. You know, if you want to have sushi, go of sushi. But let's not look at that as a solution. Let's look at that as an element of a diet. Assuming that we can get our land back to where it needs to be and oceans back to where they need to be, so we're not eating plastic fish. So actually to that point, I actually have, I think, at least in my world, controversial thoughts on the whole fish thing. So many people are like they say, to eat all wildcot fish. I am so concerned about the toxins in our ocean that I actually only eat Like I vet the fisheries and the you know where I'm getting my fish from, and I actually prefer farm raised where it's a very sustainable and it's monitored for toxins and mercury levels, because even like wildcot salmon, I don't trust with like brokeery and toxins. So yeah, yeah, Evan and I actually we probably eat fish maybe what like once a month now or something like we it is not anywhere near what we used to eat. And actually I've had mercury toxicity for years, and I've done a lot of work on my own to get rid of the toxins that I know for a fact we're coming from the fish I was eating, which was a lot at at a certain point. So our oceans are not are not healthy, and like we're very skeptical of you know, the fish can't like run away from the toxins they're they're breathing it in like you. They can't. They can't help but ingest what we're putting in our oceans. Because of that, now we are ingesting that, and that is not we should be skeptical. We should be more mindful about where we're actually getting our fish and what we're you know, where we're getting that from. We've almost cut fish almost entirely out of our diet and focus more on our room and animals, you know, eating more nose to tail to get as many nutrition as possible. You mentioned earlier Chris Sha did you work with him on your heavy metal toxicity? Not him specifically, but yes, we're very close with Chris and he's definitely given me a lot of different protocols and things like that in the past. He's a fantastic person. Yeah. I remember when I had him on the show. I mean I had mercury toxas city as well, and he told me I would be on his Wall of fame. I was like, oh no, so yeah, my blood levels were like thirty something, which is not good. Yeah, my doctor also told me it was like off the chart. She's never seen anyone as high as a mercury as what I did. So you know, I I did you know the kelation therapy for two years, saunas coffee enemas like I did so many things to help de talk me and you both. Yes, so many things help detox the body, and it is a long process. I mean, we have to be mindful about what we're consuming, and we live in a toxic world. The world that we live in now is out to kill us. Really, I mean this, this is we have to do things to combat the the toxins and things that we're exposed to on a daily basis that we can't run away from. This is our water, this is our air. I mean, this is the things are our household supplies. We can This is a whole other topic, obviously, but it's so important. I know you understand. I actually can tie it into our present topic, but just have curiosity. Did you do pharmaceutical relation? I it wasn't E D T a supplement that I was taking on almost a daily basis, So it wasn't like the the I V drips. I know some people get...

...it was more of a supplementation that lasted about two years. It was E D t A or it was not, Yes, it was it was oh, wow, you took Oral E D T A. Yeah, yeah, it's a company called Simogen. Wow, Okay, I've heard of Oral d M S A. I didn't know people could do E E t A or really I did ivy and I think looking back, and I would not have done it because I'm kind of like an extremist. And when i found that out, I was like, okay, I'm I was like getting this out, like I'm just gonna like do these I V S I A pull all the metal out, and I think I went to intense and pulled out a love of nutrients. Gotcha, gotcha. And obviously you know if you if you pull too much, if you stir up too much talks and that's in your body, that can cause some other reactions as well. So it is a slow process unfortunately, you know, like I said, it took me two years to fully get rid of them. So yeah, but you know, once you once you know what real health feels like, you're like, damn, I didn't know I was this like sluggish ure, like my mind wasn't right all the time, or I couldn't think this well, and so once you actually feel what health feels like like, damn, all right, this is something I need to gettinue. The sauna has really helped and that's like a daily part of my life now. I just love it so much. But do you do cry? Oh? Every day? Oh good, every day I can. I'll go right after this. Do you guys do cry? Yeah? We so interestingly enough, you know, this was probably about two years ago, right as COVID was starting, and we've always really been into you know, sauna or or kind of the contrast therapy, and you know, it's like COVID, like, well, what's what you know, We're not going to go to the to the clinic and do it. So we started looking at some of the options and I just didn't like any of them. They all looked like pine death boxes. So we decided to build one just for our own use, and I built it out a copper and it was just this really beautiful looking tub and then everybody's like, oh, you should sell that. So then I'm like, all right, yeah, like I need another project. So we actually created our own cryotherapy tub, but it's it's all reclaimed. Would using just natural products, and I used copper because I wanted something that wasn't chemical based. I wanted a natural just I wanted a natural metal that would clean water very very well without any like you know, chlorine or anything like that. So yeah, we we actually built and started selling our own cryotubs. You put ice in it. No, it's self cooling. So it's you just plug the thing in and it it. Oh okay, it does plug in. Oh wow, you like, oh wow, you guys are inventors self cleaning, self cooling unit. Yeah. We we like to do many things. So cool. Yeah I do that. I go to restore and do the like the chamber, like the chambers, right, yeah, I need to do the actual water. You know what's interesting, I found that getting into ice water is a lot more challenging than stepping into one of the the you know, the cold chambers, and it's it's a different, you know, mentality. I think, to submerge yourself, like where every interview is is covered in like forty degrees or whatever, maybe lower. Well, I think the brown fat activation on on water submersion over the nitrogen liquid nitrogen cool chambers is beyond debate. So it's you know it's it's a lot more painful, but I think the benefits far outweigh the you know the pain. Yeah, I believe you. Like I said, I haven't actually done an ice path, which probably shocks a lot of my listeners, but I can just tell, like I know that it's probably way way worse. Oh it sucks, It's brutal. I had whim Off on the show as well, and that was like one of my most amazing interviews ever. And I was asking him if I could like get a chest freezer and like fill it with water, and he's like, sure, So I need to I need to get on that. We love when we had him on our show and same thing. He's just like he's so passionate, and he's a beam of light, Like just a beam of light. He's incredible. When I was mentioning Farmerly Jones earlier, he has that same spirit them to have been like the two interviews where I was literally just like I was beaming and smiling the whole time because I just felt so inspired. But actually I am glad. We're talking about toxins, So the role of toxins and commissionally raised livestock. How bad is that? Like hormones, antibiotics, all of that stuff. It's pretty bad. And and you know, we also have to consider the food supply of the animals, right, So you know, when when we look at these large feed lots which are owned predominantly by the Big four meat producers, you know, places like Colorado or Nebraska or even South America where we're seeing a lot of the deforestation. You know, the the genetically modified you know, covered in glyphosate corn is what's being fed to these animals. So you have that level of toxin. But then for the purposes of maintaining that animal through its life cycle, you have the hormones and the antibiotics. And so there's this one to punch of what traditional or not traditional, what conventional meat is doing to us. And it's scary, let's be honest. I mean, like, when we're imbibing those toxins, we're imbbing those hormones and antibiotics, it is completely foolish to think that that doesn't have some type of impact. And now if we're...

...promoting a meat lifestyle or more meat in our life because of the nutritional benefits, but then we're offsetting that with these you know, with these conventional raised beef. It's no wonder that we're seeing a lot of the health ramifications, especially in what we would consider the lower socioeconomic groups who can only really purchase some of that cheaper meat. Do you guys know Terry Cochrane. Have you met her? Yea. She has like a really fascinating theory. She thinks that the stressful conditions of conventionally raised livestock actually causes the proteins in them to truncate and create these amyloids, and she thinks that's like a key factor in health conditions. Do you guys have any thoughts on that? Absolutely? And actually there's a there's a company at a really Colorado that we work with called Zion, and I'm not allowed to share a lot of the information, but what they've done is create red light but it's or light devices, but those light devices are actually really pulsed at specific recipes to create certain physiological responses. What we do is we utilize those lights when we transport cattle from the farm to the processing facility. And what we've been able to calm them down. It calms them down to the point that their melatonin levels stay ridiculously high. Wall their cortisol levels stay ridiculously low, like so far different than the control group. And that light by mitigating that stress, it obviously has a better impact on the quality of meat, but it's also a better impact on all of the elements of that animal. And and so what we're seeing is is now we're starting to put these lights in the farms, in the ranches, and so these animals are exposed to this constantly and it mitigates a lot of these stress responses that they have. And these are even just natural free range cattle, but we're seeing it at some of these smaller kind of feedlot type of areas. This technology has also been used in you know, an egg production, and what we're seeing is is the egg production is so much better, so much health chickens for chickens. Yeah, so it's you know, the ability. I kind of come back to something I said earlier is the ability for technology to have an impact in agriculture is there, and we just need to embrace it and recognize that we can have a profound positive impact in the entire food supplied by utilizing some of these new understandings. This is sort of a controversial question, so I had Mark Shatzker on the show. He wrote a book called The Dato Effect and The End of Craving. Those are two different books. But then he wrote a book called Steak. Have you guys read it? I have not just added it to the list. He basically went around like the entire world to try to find the world's best steak. I learned so much about the different types of cattle and the different types of steak, and it's fascinating, Like you and I learned like all of these crazy fun facts that I didn't know, Like black angus beef is they basically just if it's like a black cow, they basically label it black angus. But it might not be. I was, like mine blown, Like that's so arbitrary. It's literally just the color of their their hair, so they and they might not even be angus like so, but and it's it's a really funny book. But in any case, the last chapter, I think it's the last chapter. After like going and doing all of this, he decided to raise his own cow just for the purpose of that experience and seeing what that was like, and then like having his own steak from a cow that he raised. And at the end, I was laughing out load reading it, but he talks about it's kind of dark. But he was talking about the moment where he had to prepare the cow to take to the slaughter house and all of that, and so he was she had a name and everything, and he like was giving her like beer and apples and like trying to make her feel you know, really good, really good. So my controversial but like actually sort of serious question, like can you like get the cow's tipsy? Will they be happier? I'm just wondering about like substances and stress levels of the animals. You're using the red light obviously, but are there other methods to reduce their stress at the end? You know, I think so much of it actually comes down to how they're raised. And you know, the stress level of a cow that's raised on pasture on grass is so much less than these confined animals, and so that that's a big part of it right now. One of the things that we've been able to do is mitigate some of the stress of the natural world through the use of cowboys or holistic management. So think of it this way. If the cows are out in pasture their entire life, well, natural predators cause a natural stress response. So you've got wolves, you've got you know whatever, natural predators, and so that animal is always on heightened alert, meaning it's cortisol levels are always a little bit higher because it's always prepared for fight or flight. If in the process of holistic management, we're just utilizing like electric fencing and cowboys to move them along, they have that same free range, but they have a lower cortisol level because they're not constantly freaked out about, you know, what's around the corner. So really, when we talk about animal...

...husbandry, it's it's just free range. It's getting these animals out on pasture, moving them through, giving them a quality of life that they didn't have either in the feed lot or even before you know, kind of the revolution of regenerative agriculture. So this is this is that thing, right, Like, if we're gonna have animals out on the pasture, which we need, we can't eliminate animals from the planet. What's better to have this animal live this amazing life out on past or eating grass, feeling safe because it's got the cowboy there with the six shooter, or to be constantly on edge because it thinks that it's going to die that day from a wolf, for a bear or something like that. What's better? What's but you know, is it better to give these animals an amazing life, to honor that animal, and then at the end of its life, to honor it even further. By being connected to that animal as a part of our food supply, eating all of it knows to tail the organs everything, and if for whatever reason we don't eat it, we utilize that. And that's one of the things that we've done at our processing facilities. You know, we have an aerobic digester, so anything that's not edible goes into this digestor in twenty four twenty four hours later comes out as organic fertilizer that we now share with ranchers and farmers in the area so that they have a cheaper source of organic fertilizer to help continue that cycle of life. And now we know what's happening in Ukraine and Russia. Fertilizer prices are through the roof. Crane prices are through the roof. So by taking control of that entire value chain and utilizing every bit of that animal the way that our ancestors did, we're able to really reconnect with all parts of of how it means to be human. So basically, these livestock and these animals are that they can if they're in this system, living a better life than they would be in the wild. I guess the argument that I'm just thinking like Devil's advocate, I feel like the argument that the vegans can make, or like an analogy would be, this is a very dark analogy. Um I trying to sign if I should say it, Like, I guess the analogy would be like if it was a species above us raising humans, and it was like either the option of letting humans be on this world and in war and fighting themselves and having strife, but they had agency over their own ultimate ending based on their life choices and like what wars they're engaging in and what predators they escape or don't, compared to like having these species us on a planet and take care of us. We actually don't have danger and threat and everything is good, but then at the end they kill us. That is a very interesting thought, Ivan, I have you ever thought that before? Well, I mean, look, you know, we always talk about it in the form of, like, you know, if an alien civilization comes down, always the technologically inferior civilization is the one that gets eradicated. So do we honor our position? And when I say position on this one, I think it could be debatable. As the dominant species on the planet and recognize that to get it to that dominant species, we integrated animals as part of our food supply. If we acknowledge that that's how we got here, is it up to us to continue that process in a way that benefits both the animal that got us here and our new position as the dominant species on the planet. I don't know. I and and this is the ethical debate, but I love it from the standpoint of saying, like, we cannot now say that because of where we're at from an evolutionary standpoint, that we can no longer look at the other animals as part of our food supply. If we if we consider ourselves apex predators, which we are, then how does that work? And I think that the humanity in us is to say that we are now offering or giving that animal a much better existence than what it would have had a hundred years ago when it didn't just have to worry about us, but it was wolves and bears and I'm sorry, but you know, as Jenna said, when you when you come to a processing facility, it's not glorious work. It's not being a porn star. If that's considered glorious work, that was a joke. It's difficult, it's challenging, and some of the people that work at these plants have a level of compassion and understanding for these animals that I never would have believed until I was there. What is better for that animal to live in an amazing life and then too to become part of our food supply in one instant with you know, with a piece of technology that kind of that kills it quickly, like instantaneously, or to be taken down by a wolf or a bear where it's slowly consumed, being aware of almost every moment of that demise, like it's one bad day versus a lifetime of potential threats and disease and like could be slow deaths, you know, injuries, broken legs where they're just it could be suffering, you know. And yes, this is a very ethical debate, and Diana Rodgers actually did a really interesting post about this a while back about you know, animals that really truly are just...

...having out in the wild where where we're not helping manage them. Their deaths can be very you know, slow and in agonizing, you know, if if they're not being treated or or they're very safe with people, you know, and then they have one bad day. And so it is this weird kind of ethical trade off and you think about like, what is what is the most appropriate thing to do? I don't know, I like the whole one bad day thing. That sounds a little bit better to me. Are they stunned? How does the process mark? Yeah, so there's a couple of different ways. You know, mostly it's just a it's a it's a bolt gun. That is is it's just an instantaneous death. And the U. S Department of Agriculture is on site for every single event, and they monitor and and improve practices all the time to ensure that these animals do not suffer. And and we can say that, and I'm sure that every vegan out there's like, well, how do we know the answers? We don't. And and so the real focus is to not or the real challenges, to not focus on that moment, but to focus on the food supply and to really be grateful and have gratitude for that animal, knowing that we're doing the best that we can with our understanding the tools to ensure that that moment is as quick and as painless as possible. I'm not going to say that it's completely painless, because I I don't know, and I don't think anybody does. But it's really a recognition that if if we are connected to that food supply, then we can be grateful for that animal, and then we can utilize every bit of that animal to perpetuate a healthy existence for us and for the plant. I mean, going back to what you're talking about with like the evolutionary progression of us as the apex predator, and you know that journey involving eating species below us. I think it would be one thing if completely plant based system actually could support health in the environment. I really just think that's a pipe dream. And especially reading Rob Wolf's Sacred Cow, I mean, it just seems like that is just disaster for the planet and health and humanity. People like to just look at things very black and white and not look at the details of everything, and I think that does a disservice to everything. I also think about I think one of the biggest arguments for just the natural circle of life is there are carnivorous mushrooms, and so what's going like is that okay, like if mushrooms can eat other plants, I just think people should think about that. Oh yeah, and and look, it's let's look back at the entire evolutionary history, you know, the the anthropological history of this planet. It's it's the same thing as like, for something to live, something must die. If you have your you know, your herbivorre species, you have your omnivorre species, you have your carnivorre species. You know, human beings exist kind of in that omnivorre stage. But when we really look at it, and I don't know how this, I want to throw them under the bus. But if you go to PETA's website, People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals, they have something on there that says that if you're driving down the road and you see an animal that was like run over and dead on the side of the road and you don't feel and you don't feel compelled to go eat it, that scientific proof that we evolved as herbivores. And I'm like, like I lost my mind, my head like almost exploded, very strong statement. And and Peter, let's let's be honest. Has never been known for being smart. They've been known for being good marketers. But what we do know is everything about human evolution. Human biology dictates that we evolved as omnivores. We utilize plants, we utilize berries and vegetables as an interim nutritional source while we were you know, as as nomads tracking down march game. And our gut microbiome, our teeth, our jaws, all of these things dictate that, yes, we are omnivorous. We get protein, we can synthesize protein from animals, and actually to the to the fact that our gut microbiome actually puts us more as kind of scavengers and less as carnivorous, meaning because we didn't have the strength or the ferocity to go kill the animal. Oftentimes we would come in and pick up like the carcass, right like, we would eat the stuff that you know, that was left over after the lion you know, was done with it. So, you know, it's it's impossible to ignore our evolution. And in that, why do we think that we shouldn't continue to perpetuate that type of lifestyle for optimal health. Yeah, you mentioned I think this is something probably important to define for listeners. You mentioned like the word free range, and we've been using a lot of words like grass fed, grass Finnish, free range, organic. What do all of these labels actually mean? Because I know when you go to the grocery store, there's like all the labels and what's the difference between grass fed, grass finished, grass fed, forage finished. There's just so many things. Oh my god. Yes, and it's it's all marketing, right, it is literally all marketing. All cows are grass like, that's like I mean, unless a cow is born in...

...a feed lot and pump full of corn like at a certain point. The way that are like our cattle system works is most cows are born out on the out in the range, and so they're grass fed. Every cow is grass fed. It's how they're finished. And so that's really where we need to pay attention to the to the vernacular on this one. Grass fed and grass finished is kind of ideal. Grass fed, forge finishes is okay, Like forge is really kind of this. It can be regenerative, but it can also include some grain. So you know, if we really like the idea of regenerative it's grass fed, grass finished, regeneratively raised. And then of course, you know, most of the time if you're just buying like the cheap beef at the grocery store, that's going to be grass fed, grain finished in a feed lot. No hormones or an or or antibiotics is something that we should always be looking for. So yeah, and and and I think when you kind of get into like this free range or cage free all that, that really kind of gets more into the chicken side of things. But that's a whole other bag of kittens that's worth unpacking because the marketing behind that is pretty deceiving and and honestly scary because we think about like cage free, well, cage free is a violent place for chickens to live. So so basically cage free means that they're all in this warehouse. They're not in cages. But chickens are violent animals, and so what happens is, you know, they're just constantly killing each other. You know, like free range is there out of the cage, they're in the barn and they have access to the outdoors. But what happens is that most chickens won't actually take advantage of that access. So there'll be a door there that they can open like a like almost a dog door, but most chickens will never take advantage of that. And so what we really start to understand is the marketing and all of this, and there's some great articles online just to understand the language and then make decisions based off of what's best for the animal and for us as people. And that's where we just have to understand. It's like we need to shop with our wallets in the sense of incentivize all of these producers to create food or to get us food that is in line with what's natural, what's best for our environment, and what's best for our health. So glad you said that, because this is a huge question I have and I've actually I think about it a lot. Every time I'm at the grocery store. I've pulled my audience and the results are always people have a lot of opinions about it. So how do you feel because a lot of the big chains like Target and Kroger, and I don't know in Sacramento what they have, like if it's Ralph's or I'm not sure what version of Kroger you have there, but they'll have like their in store line where they say it's like, you know, organic grass fed, grass finished. People will say like that that's not a good thing because that's like industry taking over and that it's not going to be as transparent as it should be. On the flip side, people will say, no, that's what we need. It's big companies moving towards this movement. So how do you feel about the law large companies doing this and having like there, you know they're in house brand of where it says that they're doing these things. I think it's a bad idea, and I don't think it's a bad idea from them actively getting involved in promoting the education of it. I think it's a bad idea in the sense that we need to become more communal as a country and I think as a species. And let's go back pre Industrial Revolution, we lived in smaller communities. You know, we would if we had to go to the market because we couldn't grow something, we usually walked there. We got movement, but more importantly, we kind of really grew or maintained everything that was in our food supply. And I think if we can go back to this this concept of eating like a local war, you know, getting your food from farmers markets. Supporting local, you know, really supporting them as they support regenerative practices is the way that we really start to turn the tide in all of this. And whether it's Target or Kroger or any of those other companies, yeah, be a part of the education, but it's really what happens when they're a part of that is is that the producer, the American rancher or farmer, gets the short end of the stick. You know, Target is making the bulk of that revenue. Their margin is the most important part of that transaction, and they marginalize the producer in an effort to get that product to a consumer in a supply chain that allows them to make the most amount of money. Cut them out. Like Target doesn't need the money. The American rancher or farmer who's living off of subsidies needs the money. And if we look at the the entire economic chain on this one, that producer, the beef producer, the egg producer, the chicken producer usually has to you know, usually requires a government subsidy because of how little they make. So they sell that product to a broker. That broker turns around and sells that product to target. Target turn around and sells that product to the consumer. That consumer has to pay taxes on that product, which then go into the government subsidies, so that we can go back and pay that rancher and farmer a livable wage. If we cut out the broker and target and we just go...

...direct to that ranch or producer, we've optimized that entire value chain to the point that that producer now can make a liva bullet wage without the government subsidy. And we know exactly where we're getting our food, which brings us one step closer to reconnecting with our food supply. And two questions from that one with the local what about the fact that there could be a lot of local farmers that aren't local to anybody because of where they're like literally based. Yeah, and that's the challenge, right. You know, urban sprawl has put us in a position where we might not have immediate access to a farmer's market or something like that. But I think by and large, most places in the continental US are going to have that. Alaska might be the outlier, and you know, there might be some parts of the Midwest just because of you know, winters or seasonality. But if we at least begin the process of starting with that, if we at least make it some part of our food acquisition, we're starting to move incrementally in the right direction. And I think that's what it takes. It's the recognition of where our food comes from. It's the recognition of what we can do to start to move in the right direction. And then it's you know, it's making those small steps. You know, we're not asking everybody to quit smoking overnight, but you don't like, start to limit, you know, all the bad food. Start to support the local person that you can support, and whether that's you know, the meat producer, the chicken producer, whatnot. It's find a way to become a part of the problem or part of the solution and not a part of the problem. I don't know much about the politics of it all, but this goes back to the very first question about you know, the way things had to be and the way things could be, Like do you think because it seems like the subsidy situation just change, Like if randomly the government was like, hey, we're going to subsidize completely different things that support a completely different system, like practically without change everything, Like if that happened just as a thought experiment, you know, I think it's a great thought experiment. And I think one of the things that we have to recognize is Maslow's hierarchy of basic human needs, which has food, clothing, shelter at the bottom, doesn't have a iPhone. We have come to prioritize all of the wrong things, and part of that is through the government subsidy of keeping food costs so artificially low that that producer can't make money. But then we've also become disconnected and devalue our food, which is why our food waste is so high. Let me put it this way. If your head of lettuce was actually fifteen dollars, would you waste it? Would that be that thing that sits at the bottom of the refrigerator and eventually turns green and then you know you have to throw away? Answer is no. And so by artificially through subsidies keeping our food costs so low, we've d prioritized not just the producer, but the health ramifications of eating the way that we need to to ensure that we don't become the fat, obese you know, wally type of society where we're all floating around in chairs. You guys know, I'm obsessed with doing everything I can to get a good night's sleep. And you might have heard me talking about this before, But one of the things I'm obsessed with to assure that I sleep well is silk pillow cases. And I'm about to tell you how to get thirty percent off my new favorite brand. I was already obsessed with silk pillowcases. You've probably heard me talking about them on the Intermittent Fasting podcast, trying to convince my co host Jin Stevens at the time to get some herself. So obviously I was thrilled when a company called BLISSI reached out to me. It took me so long to find silk pillowcases that I liked. How did I not know about Blissy? They make award winning one percent mulberry silk pillowcases in so many colors and patterns. I got the Hibiscus, which is this gorgeous bright magenta pink. But why am I so obsessed with silk? First of all, Blissy's silk pillowcases actually regulate temperature to keep you cool at night. The entire pillow is cool to the touch. No more sweaty nights, tossing and turning as you search for the cool side of your pillow. And now that I'm saying that, I'm realizing, yeah, I don't have that anymore. Silk has completely taken care of that. Silk is also what's best for your hair and skin. It reduces frizz, tangles and prevents breakage. That's actually the reason I first got interested in silk years ago. Come to think of it, that's because it keeps the moisture in your hair, and it keeps your skin care products and natural moisture on your skin, unlike cotton, which actually strips it. You can say goodbye to wrinkly skin in the morning and wake up with healthier and shinier hair that you can be proud of. When the rep for Blissy actually reached down to me about this, I just went on this excited rant about how excited I was because I know how much silk is cooling and benefits my skin and hair. And the man I was talking to said he agreed that he's noticed a huge change in his skin. So it's not just for ladies speaking of With the holidays just around the corner. Why not give the gift a better sleep. I'm actually going to get Blissy pillow cases for so many people. The packaging actually comes gift ready. It is so adorable, so it's ready to gift right out of the box. Honestly, the more I think about it, silki cases are one of those things that you don't know you need...

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It's so that's called the inedible awful and most of that will just interestingly enough, kind of a side note to all of this. I grew up in Greeley, Colorado, which is JB one of JBS largest feedlots. So my high school in my college were about five miles away from ten to twenty thousand cow And you can imagine what that smells like. Yes, that was my first thought. Yeah, And and you know people are like, oh, you know, don't complain, it's the smell of money. Like, no, it's the smell of ship. Let's be honest. Here, on specific days of the week when they would burn or incinerate that edible afl that smell made the you know, the poop smell like heaven. It's a horrible thing. And honestly, we talked about carbon, right, we talked about some of these issues with the environment. Carbon in the atmosphere is simply a result of burning things. That's what it boils down to. And so when we burn a cow or parts of the cow, we're just releasing more carbon into the ear. Originally that cow, when it was killed out in the wild, all of that inedible offel was dissolved back into the soil, so it became part of the solution, not part of the problem. But most of the places they have an economic model that says, this is how we deal with it because the cost driver is the ultimate decision maker, not what's best for people, not what's best for the planet. Wow. So that had never occurred to me, and I'm glad you mentioned it because I did want to talk a little bit more about the like the greenhouse gas situation, all of that. The burning of the animals, Is that a large part of the carbon problem? It can be, I mean, it's it's there's so many different reasons that we have carbon in you know, the atmosphere, and I know carbon becomes the big buzzword, but the interesting thing is that we are carbon based life forms, right. Carbon is just a part of our of our system. But we we definitely recognize what happens when we burn things, and that carbon is released in the air as a greenhouse gas, and then we have the methane and all of that. But yeah, we we definitely release carbon into the atmosphere when we burn parts of these animals that could easily be repurposed for other things. Fertilizer's pet foods. You know, again, we've taken industrial of solution, has taken the natural way of doing things and turned it turned it on its head. And so that animal that would decompose and become part of the soil, which would you know, which would bring nutrients to the soil, which would bring health to the soil, is now just thrown in an oven and now we've got smelly shit out in the air, which is so sad to me too, because like that the organs and like the rest of the animal can be some of the most nutrient dense parts of the animal. And the fact that that could be used for fertilizer or even like for us to consume, like we're missing out on so much nutrition. And I feel like, I mean, here's the thing. If we're taking the life of an animal just kind of destroying it, like burning it, that shows I mean, we should have more reverence for these animals that are we're taking their lives for us to consume. So I feel like that's that's just as depressing for me to hear that, you know, they just burn it and we can't do more with with with those parts of it, you know. I had no idea about that. This is a super naive question. So carbon just in general, I don't even want to ask it so now, but is there a set...

...amount of carbon in the entire planet that is just being redistributed or is there actually new carbon creation? I believe there's a set amount, you know. I think the only differences is that through the through the population density, there's more carbon as a result of a human being. But carbon is just one of those things. It's like it's it's in the atmosphere, it gets released, or it's it's in the ground, it gets released, and then through the natural cycle things it was supposed to be reabsorbed as a basically as a food for our plants, you know, carbon dioxide then feeds the plants through photosynthesis and then it gets released through burning. So there's this natural cycle, but we've just admitted so much of it that it now has become toxic to us. And so I know that there's probably some better scientists who can answer that, But my understanding is is that carbon is kind of static, and it's just how we are, through the process of the way that we're stewards of our planet, just releasing way more and if you look historic, you know, back through the whole planetary history. You know, we can look at core samples and know that carbon levels were really high at certain points, especially as the formation of the planet was happening and we had all this volcanic activity, which is actually one of the reasons that since I think two thousand and fifteen, that methane level of parts per billion has increased to where it's at. It hasn't been because of the cows. It's been because of certain volcanic activity as well as some other things. So it's you know, we just can't blame it all on the cows. I think this goes back to what I was talking about when opening this show, which is just how overwhelmingly confusing it is. Because literally if you Google this or like go through Google scholar which is like one of my favorite places to just read stuff. I feel like you find studies showing completely different stats and about methane and you know what's doing what, and it's it's overwhelming, but I mean some interesting things. So it seems like at least from reading Rob's Sacred Cow and looking into it more since then as well, like I think Rice is actually the biggest generator of methane out of all I could be wrong. It's probably double check that I know it's like really high on the spectrum, and then I think people don't take into account I know it's skewed and that for cows. They will look at the entirety of everything that goes into that and the methane released and the effect on greenhouse gasses compared to the plant based systems where they kind of like isolate it. But I guess just stepping back, so you guys think that greenhouse gas wise, like regenerative agriculture is beneficial. Not only is it beneficial, it is actually a way to reverse greenhouse you know the effects of greenhouse gases. So if we think about reversing climate change, part of that is pulling that legacy carbon out of the atmosphere back into the ground where it belongs. So if we turn all of these cows loose onto the pasture and we know that they're actually creating these thriving grasslands, those grasslands are the things that are ultimately going to be the largest carbon sinks. They're going to pull that carbon out of the atmosphere and and we're going to start to see that reversal of climate change. Now, desertification is another thing that Alan Savory talks a lot about, and that really is that process by which we're losing the top soil and then we're now desertifying the land. And if you look at some of the kind of the climate maps of especially north the northern hemisphere, it's desertifying at an alarming rate. And a big portion of that, a large portion of that is actually the modern agriculture, not in the form of cows, but in the form of plants or on how we're mono cropping soybeans and so you know, we talk about things like the impossible burger, you know that comes from genetically modified soybeans with levels of glypha sate that are carcinogenic and so I I laugh at the vegan community who gets so behind this movement to save the planet, but then there their quarterback and all of this is probably one of the most toxic things that you could put in your body and one of the most toxic things for the planet, which is leading to this desertification. So by implementing holistic management, by implementing regenerative practices, we can start to pull more of that carbon out of the year and have a reversal of some of the climate issues that we're seeing, which is is going to be catastrophic. I mean, look at the hurricanes, look at everything we're seeing. These are ultimately climate exacerbated. They might not be change driven, but their climate change exacerbated. And that's why it's just so it's really frustrating because like impossible Burger beyond Burger, Like all of their marketing, I mean, they make it seem like it's very plant supportive, like this is the answer to save the planet. But what I've seen and what you're talking about is it it just doesn't seem to be that. How do they get away with this? Well? And I think that you know, I hate to see shareholder value go down, but the fact that they lost their value was great. The fact that they were actually sued for you know, false advertising is great. Like I love that it makes me tap dance in the streets, and I love that we actually get to have real conversations that contradict their marketing, you know, and and and they're like, well, man...

...evolved as as you know, as as plant based. Like if that's the case, then why in the name of sweet baby Jesus, do you need a product that looks like meat, taste like meat, and bleeds like meat. If you can contend that we evolved a plant, you know, as as herbivores, then where the frick are you sewing a meat product. One of my favorite studies, Paul Saladino talks about this in his book It. It was a study where they looked at people who were practicing veganism and they looked at the parts of their brains that lit up when they would look at meat or not. And basically they're like conscious liking part of the brain didn't light up, but they're subconscious part of the brain that had to do with wanting and liking would light up when they saw meat, even if they didn't perceive that they wanted the meat, which I thought was really interesting. I love that. Yeah, to put that in your crack pipe, peda and smoke it. So I'll put a link to that in the show notes. So I do have some questions about everything you guys are doing because you keep mentioning the processing plant. That's the first question. So did you buy a processing plant before having a farm? Yes? Yeah, And that was the first part of it. And I think that, you know, what we needed to understand was the logistics of processing before we got into the farm itself, and then you know, how do we do that? And right now we're at a place where we're still working with all of these different farms outside of our own to understand animal husbandry better. You know, we want to make sure that everything that we do from our generative pastures is a representation of the best possible practices in holistic management and regenerative agriculture. And so by purchasing this processing plant, we got to learn from the best and Wyoming is a great place for for regenerative agriculture. But the joke there is you start talking to ranchers about regenerative they're like, that's just how I've done it for a hundred years. And so it's been really eye opening to see the practices that work and and how unique is to each ranch and to each farm. You know, how do you work with that particular farm, with the soil, with the water. And it's really an art form. And I think that's one of those things that we have forgotten, is that creating food for the purposes of feeding eight billion people or at least three d and thirty million in the US. It's not formulaic, it's an art form. It's each ranch is different, each climate is different, and so yeah, it's it's just been an exciting process for us to kind of get into this and and you know, keel back the layers and recognize that two people from California who have never owned, you know, a cow or a ranch or a goat or trying to figure out figure out how the hell to do all of this. How many farms do you work with right now? Oh, jeez, we we probably work with well it's hundreds in the region, but you know, we have we have probably thirty to forty big, big ranches, you know, anywhere between a hundred and sixty to two hundred thousand acres that we work with on the processing side. How did you find them and do you go interview them? And how does that work? Yeah, we go interview them. We were there, I don't know about six months ago and one of the head cowboy and these are cowboys right like, they're out on horseback with these It is something out of yellow Stone. It is so fun to see and to talk to these guys and interview them and understand what it is that they do and their perception of what regenerative is and you know, they monitor everything. It's kind of this really cool convergence of technology utilizing like data and then old school practices. How do we move our herd from one paddock to the next or one acre to the next, and how do they monitor that? And how do they really take pride in everything that goes into that cow from the moment that it's born until the moment that it shows up at our processing facility, and it is It's been such an honor to see that process and to work with so many of these people who, like I said, just get marginalized. They don't like I mean, I hate to say it. Yeah, like Elon Musk is cool, but the real heroes of our world are the ones that make sure that we're fed and and just it's been that honored to really reset and recalibrate our expectations about what it means to be a real producer in the United States and ensure that people have healthy access to food, healthy access to to the things that we need to live every single day. I'm super curious because I've heard that that farmers, especially in the conventional system that there's a lot of mental health issues just because of how dark the system is. What's the vibe of these farmers that you meet? Are they like happy? Oh, I would say so. I mean, you know, they don't look at their phones all day long. They're outside in nature under the sun, on a horse with animals, and like, these are some of the happiest people I've met. And it's it's interesting the things that would connect people in in the modern world are things that won't connect you with the average farmer. You're not gonna be talking about like your favorite TV shows are like a TV what's that? You know? You know, you ask them about video games or pop culture, it's not they're They're focused on a completely different and sphere of influence. It's a lifestyle for them, and...

...beyond a lifestyle, it's not something they ever take a break from. Like the cows don't get a vacation, so they don't get a vacation. Like these are people that work seven days a week, sun up to sundown. These are the hardest working people in our entire economic system. And yeah, I mean they're just fascinating salt of the earth. So many amazing people that we've had the pleasure of meeting. And I can't thank them enough, even though they probably don't even half of them don't know what a podcast is. I can't thank them enough for doing what they do to ensure that we have animals that we can then turn around and sell to a group of of you know, to a customer base that's excited about making a dent in the universe. Wow, that's amazing. Do they do any processing or does it all go to your processing plant? The cows? It all goes to our processing plans. So so we establish protocols that they have to follow to ensure that these are you know, that meet our standard for regenerative and so then we work with them, We audit them. I don't want to say added because that's such a negative word, but we actually work with them, and then we utilize all available scientific data that's you know, carbon testing, that's water infiltration, that's microbials testing. So and then we just work with them, you're over year to ensure that they are able to improve their operation, improve their yields, and then give us the data that we need to stand behind our product and say, yes, this is regenerative, this is something that we know, has had a massive positive impact in the environment and more importantly, the health of the people that are eating our product. So looking at everything that you have on your site, it says grass fed or forage finished. So are they grass fed, grass finished? Or is their grain or what's happening there? We never use a grain, so forage could be something like they could be eating a especially in Wyoming, sometimes there's not grass, you know, or Montana when it snows, and so what we'll do is we'll take like grass or some type of forge that is not considered a grain, and the plants but still plants, and then will actually be thrown out on the snow, so there's still pasture and all of that excrement still stays within the ground. But you know, sometimes just because of the climate, there's not grass for them to eat. So I have never eaten wagu because I've actually been super concerned with the health implications of that because it seems like a very unhealthy animal just from like their raising practices for it normally. So what type of wagu do you guys have? So this is angus waigu cross and so it's the same, you know, the same raising practices, but these are just animals that have been crossbred. So you have an angus and a wagu, and then we raise them in accordance with our regenerative practices, and yes, you have a little bit more of that marbling that's typical of a wagu, not to the extent of like a pure Japanese. So it's just like it's just all fat, but it just gives a really nice, unique flavor to it. I think one of these if you've ever had waigu kind of at a restaurant which is hyper expensive, you recognize that's something you're not going to eat on a consistent basis. It's so fat, it's it's got so much marbling. It's more of a delicacy, whereas the wag that we sell is something we eat it every week, and it's it's not something that's overkilled to the point that you you're like, I gotta take a break from that. Yeah, it is so delicious, tastes good because every time I see wagu at the restaurant'm like I would never order that, but seeing this and like I might have to try this. We're going to send you some Oh I'm so excited. Okay, that will be my first time trying wagu and I'll let listeners know, but I think honestly it will send you some of the wagu angest ground beef. It is the best burger in the known universe. Oh wow, yeah, so you're ground beef? What is that? Okay? Wait, oh, this is a question I've wondered for so long. I read somewhere that ground beef is often parts of meat, like it's like the like leftover parts of meat, so it might have more like collagen and stuff like that. And it is that true? Not necessarily, you know, typically the ground beef is just you know, it comes from the trim. So you know, an animal is you know, is killed and then we typically will hang all of our animals, you know, for fourteen days to dry age them, which gives especially within the grass fed grass finished world, gives them a little bit more of that really good flavor profile. And so you know, we take all the steaks off, you know, your rebis your t bones, you know, all of that, and then what's left, which is the predominant part of the animal is just the grind. It's it's the stuff that you know, we put together and we we create ground beef. For it. There might be more collagen, there might be a little bit more fat, but typically it's just you know, it's just a the bulk of the animal that doesn't come in the form of a steak and makes for really good tacos and hamburgers and still very nutrient dense, right, I mean, I think a lot of people think, oh, if if I want to start eating more red meat for nutritional benefits, they're thinking, oh, it needs to be realised in these filets all the time. No, like ground beef is actually a very nutrient dense source of meat, you know, and especially if it's like the grass fed grass finish and it's it's a hell the it's a healthy animal. You know,...

...you can still integrate animal protein into your diet in a very healthy way that's not as expensive aout these rabis and these filets and stuff, and it's a lot more versatile too. I have not had beef heart. I've heard it actually tastes similar to a normal stake. Is that true? Beef heart, actually, I would say is the easiest organ to consume if you're wanting to integrate more organ meats into your diet. It tastes delicious and actually one of our most popular things. So we actually make organ jerky at our plants as well. So we have heart jerky and liver jerky, which are definitely our best sellers. It's a really really nice way to get the benefits of organ meats if you're kind of looking to dip your toe in, because you know, you hear people eating like the livers and the spleens and like all the you know, all the things in there and even like testicles and stuff like that, very like out there kind of things. Heart is a super easy organ to integrate into the diet that has tremendous nutritional value us them. And I'm glad you brought up a jerky. I was going to ask you about that because that I've not seen that before, like liver jerky, heart jerky. Oh, we're definitely sending you some of that that will change your life. Are there seasonings or is it so you can just get natural or we've done like liver and onion for those people who want to throw back to what their grandparents made them tarayaki honey, So you know, we we play with some some flavors. Our jerky team in Wyoming is absolutely amazing how often does stuff go in and out of stock? Is that really hard for you guys to manage, like the supply chain of everything? It isn't. It isn't it goes out of stock because it sells really well. But we're usually back in about every week, so it's just you know, for someone listening, it's just check back in or you can sign up for you know, email notifications and will notify you when that stuff gets back in the stock. But the thing with the organ meats is there's so little of the liver and the heart compared to the rest of the animals. So it's it's a challenge to keep up with that. Personal question for both of you, how do you cook and order your steak or steak? Just our steaks well, you know like rare, meetium, rare, well done. We both like medium rare. What about you? I would just eat it raw. Like the other night I was craving. I was like, I'm gonna make some carpaccio. So I like pulled out a filet up Richard box frozen filet and I was slicing it like make it into carpaccio, and it was so good. Then I just I just like eat all of it raw. I don't know if that's okay, but no, it should be fine. I mean, that's that's the thing. It's it's it's all preference. It's all preference. We you know, typically when we make at home, which we we make steaks almost five nights a week, you know, we'd like to suvite the steak first and then it's just kind of flame kiss for for a little that charring. But that's that's kind of our preferred method over here. Oh so I have a Suvie system I haven't actually used yet. Actually a listener just sent it to me. They were like, I want to give this to you. I was like, thank you. That's nice. I hope people are really really kind. It looks really difficult to do. Is it easy once you get used to doing it? Very easy? You know, for us, it's depending on which one you have. If you've got the whole kind of Suvie oven, I think, you know, there's some there's some recipes on that one, but we just actually you know, throw it in the hot water bath for like two hours and then you know, just sear it on the grill for you know, three or four minutes. Aside with some butter and you know, salt and and that's it, and you'll have one of the best stakes you've ever had. Wow, Okay, I'm inspired. Oh and what about oxtail? Is that literally I've always wondered, is that actually the oxtail and it's you know, all of that that kind of bone as it gets into the tail portion, But it's really collagen and merrow rich. And so that's actually one of our biggest sellers, as well as OsO buko. And so those are those ones you know you have to kind of play with the recipes that work that you know that work for you. There's some amazing recipes you know, just online that you can find, but those those cuts really just have that really rich merrow flavor. We love them. I remember the first time I had bone marrow, I felt like the heavens like opened. I was like, what is this? What is this magic? Have you tried it raw before rab and merrow? Probably because most likely I probably did, because I'm the type that just like keats everything raw. Do you prefer it raw? Either? You know? Either? I always think like, oh, if you're if you're not cooking it, it preserves more of the nutritional value. So Yeah, actually, I feel like it's really good if you just like kind of scoop out and like slather it on something almost like a butter. That seems to work. Well. It's a very i almost want to say, like waxy crawon kind of texture. It's kind of hard to like chew down, but very very high nutrition collagen and things like that. I think it may have been the biggest gap between just because if you haven't had it before and like when you're a kid, bone marrow, like it sounds like something that might be gross. So I think it was the biggest gap between like not knowing what it was going to taste, like this might be disgusting with like tasting like the most amazing thing known to mankind. Yeah. Absolutely. I mean there are so many ways to cook these things where it can be more palatable. Like, for example, liver is a very distinct taste. I feel like people either love it or they hate it. Luckily, Evan and I actually really enjoy the taste, which is great because of how nutrient dens it is. Liver has basically every nutrient invited that you need. It's so nutrient dense. I call it,...

...you know, Nature's multi vitamin so you know a lot of people I suggest that people integrate liver until they're diet and kind of replace it with their synthetic vitamins. But yeah, it's the organs are are fantastic way to get that extra nutrition. I'm so glad you mentioned that about the organs. That's actually a question that I think about a lot and has haunted me, and I don't understand why from like from a historical evolutionary perspective. In theory, it seems like we should all crave organ meats because of how nutrient dense they are, but in general people don't, and in general people don't like them. And even me, like I I went paleo, I like cleaned up my diet. I remember thinking, oh, of course I'm gonna love organ meats because in theory, they should be what my body wants. And I still don't like. I still don't like liver, And even at a time when I was like severely anemic, I didn't like the taste of liver. And I don't know why that is, Like I'm I don't know. My theory is it might be like uh, toxicity potential of vitamins. Yeah, I mean think about it too, Like our palates have changed so much over over hundreds of years, right, I mean, organs are not something that people are really used to eating these days. But I think that when you do change your diet to integrate more you know, nutrient dense things, you kind of crave more of that, and like your body learns to enjoy, you know, for example, like we eat a lot of fruit instead of like desserts and stuff. Now, like our our bodies craved the fruit and like that type of sugar that has more nutrition in it versus the processed sweets and stuff like that. Hi, friends, So what I'm about to say may include some disturbing content, So if young ones are listening, you may want to skip ahead. On Valentine's Day two, I experienced sexual battery by a man at a massage parlor. I felt so helpless and so scared while it was happening, and afterwards I was really really scared to tell anybody. I am so glad that my friends encouraged me to tell the police, and I'm so glad that the police believed me and that the man is now in jail. And ever since sharing my story, you guys have been so supportive. So many people have applauded me for telling the police, saying that something like that had happened to them too, and they never told anybody. I started looking into the statistics and they are pretty shocking. So sexual assaults are most likely the most prevalent crime in the US, and they are also the most underreported. Every sixty eight seconds, an American is sexually assaulted, so I was one of those. Every nine minutes that victim is a child. Meanwhile, only twenty five out of every one thousand perpetrators will end up in prison, and only five percent of sexual assault reports filed have ever been proven false. Two percent of all juvenile sexual assault victims are female, of adult rape victims are female, and in two thousand nineteen, over six hundred and fifty two thousand, six hundred and seventy six women were raped and nearly one million women were victims of sexual assault. I believe this is a huge, huge problem happening in our society. It's one of the crimes where there's not usually evidence. It's not like a physical object was stolen or somebody outwardly injured or killed. It's basically your word against the perpetrator. And so it can be really, really scary to tell somebody and stand up for yourself. But I want to encourage you that we can change this. We can speak up. So if something happens to you, I encourage you, please please tell somebody. I promise you you're not crazy. The thing that really convinced me to go to the police was it wasn't so much about me, but about stopping this man from doing this to somebody else. If you feel like someone crossed the boundary, they probably did. People don't usually question things that are appropriate and normal. And as parents, I encourage you to have these conversations with your children in whatever time and way you feel comfortable. I think we can make change here. It's just about spreading awareness and taking a stand and speaking out. So thank you everybody so much for the support. I love you all. You are amazing, And let's change this. So I always say you got this. Okay, back to the show. Just last question, looking at your website, who is Brooke just he worked with you guys, Brooke And yeah, Brooke is one of our influencers. You know, she was one of the Amazonians. But yeah, she she's just you know, a friend of the family friend of the you know company, who's who's been a big avid support of regenerative agriculture and was really supportive of what we're doing, and so, you know, kind of with her following in the fitness spaces, has been a real advocate for what we're doing and kind of helping a lot of people in the CrossFit community who know that they need to eat healthy, but also just don't understand the education between or understand the education of regenerative versus conventional or things like that. And so, you know, especially if you're a high performance athlete or anybody and you're looking to just optimize your health in any way, going regenerative is a good start. Okay, gotcha? Because I saw like Jana's box and then Brooke and Laura's box. Gotcha? Well, oh my goodness, Well, I know I want to just eat everything right now that you guys make and I'm sir, I'm sure listeners...

...will as well. And so I am so excited and thrilled because you guys have an amazing offer for our audience. So friends, you can get off your first membership, which that's incredible and free ground beef for life also incredible, and I'm sorry, you know, we're running on time. We would actually just tell listeners really quickly the cool fun facts about the ground beef and how it's sustainable to do that. Yeah. Absolutely so. So this was something interesting. As we first started shipping these boxes all across the country, I was trying to figure out, like, how do we minimize the use of basically dry ice in that process, and started to recognize that, like a pound brick of ground beef actually holds that frozen bt you more than dry ice. So I'm like, wait a second here, I can you know, I can utilize more of the animal, I can keep that package, that shipping package colder longer, and we don't have the environmental degradation of using dry ice. So it was like, so, you know, while I think a lot of companies have kind of talked about like we'll just give you free ground be for life, I want to really acknowledge the fact that by purchasing our membership boxes and taking advantage of that special you know, you're creating more food for your family or getting more food for your family, but you're also helping with the environmental piece by allowing us to use less dry ice and shipping. That is so cool. I mean, I just love that. That is just amazing. So listeners off for your first membership and free ground be for life. So Regennerative Pastors dot Com with a cupon code Melanie Avalon off your first membership and free ground beef for life. Well, Janna and Evan, thank you so much. I just came and describe how much I enjoyed this conversation. How incredibly overwhelmingly grateful I am to you guys for doing what you're doing. I mean, this is like this life changing, planet changing, people changing, animal changing stuff. The last question that I asked every single guest on this show, and it's just because I realize more and more each day how important mindset is. So for witho of you, what is something that you're grateful for? Ladies, First, it's so important to be grateful for things. So I appreciate that you remind me to even think about that today. I am actually very grateful for my relationship with Evan. He's one of the most amazing people I've ever met. Inspires me to be a better person, and I love that I can do life with him. So I am I'm tremendously grateful for him. Well geez that, yeah, you can say whatever you want. I want to take a personal I was gonna say my gym membership, but now I can't. Um. You know, I find that people are are always the thing that I'm most grateful for, and you know, opportunities to change people's lives, and so Janna has really been an impetus for me to to think outside of my traditional box, get creative and really look at tackling some of the big problems. But also my daughter, you know, my year old daughter, who's who's the reason that I wake up in the morning. She's kind of, you know, at the center of my universe. And you know, before her, it was easy for me to tackle problems more from a business perspective or from a intellectual capacity. But now having that why, the recognition that we have to leave the world a better place is that driving force. And I know now that with the what I've learned with regenerative agriculture and armed with you know, the power of Janna beside me and the knowledge that I have to leave this world a better place for my daughter, I'm inspired every day to get up and do the work that I do well that is amazing and you're definitely doing all of that. I really really cannot think both of you enough for everything that you're doing. I'm so so grateful. What links would you like to put out there? How else can they follow your work? Yeah, we're generative pastors has social links. We also have our own. I'm just at Janna Breslin pretty much on everything, and Evan is at Evan DeMarco, Evan Underscore DeMarco. I think there's another Evan demark out there is more popular, but follow Janna. You don't want to follow me, She's the exciting one. Air Well. I will put links to all of that in the show notes. Thank you guys, both against so so much. Hopefully we can have you back in the future because this was amazing. Joy the rest of your day. Thank you Monnie. This was a tasking and again, thank you for all the work that you're doing. I think it takes a lot to amplify these conversations and hopefully steer people in in the direction that good information leads and and you know, yeah, it's it's been fun to be a part of this. Yeah, you've asked amazing questions too. I loved it. It was great, well, thank you so much. While we're all in this together, so we got this. Yes we do. Yes. Have a good rest of your day. Bye, Thank you, Melanie. Bye. Thank you so much for listening to the Melanie Avalon bio Hacking Podcast. For more information, you can check out my book What When Wine, Lose Weight and Feel Great with Paleo style meals, intermittent fasting and Wine, as well as my blog Melanie Avalon dot com. Feel free to contact me at podcast at Melanie Avalon dot com and always remember you got this.

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